Dave Hause's spans 30+ years, from Philly-based punk and hardcore bands (like Paint it Black and The Loved Ones) to his solo career, dozens of records and world-wide touring, and starting his own label with his brother called Blood Harmony Records. We talk with Dave about the blue collar work of a creative career, showing up and doing the work, the role and power of anticipation in a creative career, breathing, and a whole lot more.
Dave Hause's spans 30+ years, from Philly-based punk and hardcore bands (like Paint it Black and The Loved Ones) to his solo career, dozens of records and world-wide touring, and starting his own label with his brother called Blood Harmony Records. We talk with Dave about the blue collar work of a creative career, showing up and doing the work, the role and power of anticipation in a creative career, breathing, and a whole lot more.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of the Other 22 Hours podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss,
Michaela: and I'm your other host, Michaela Anne. We are on episode 123, and this week we're featuring our conversation with Dave Hause. He is a singer-songwriter, originally from Philadelphia coming up in the punk rock world.
He had a band called The Loved Ones. he's recorded and released several solo records now Two or three of which have been produced by Will Hogue. he releases his music independently with his brother on their record label called Blood Harmony. And he's toured with people like Gaslight, Anthem, Lucero, Brian Fallon, And Chuck Reagan.
Aaron: Yeah. And this is a really great conversation if you have been a long time listener and, enjoyed one of our early [00:01:00] episodes with BJ Barham from American Aquarium. This kind of has, a lot about pulling up your blue collar and being a working class hero, just showing up and doing the work.
And if you've listened to any of these episodes, you know that I am here for that. We talk about knowing what is right for you and accepting that path, even if it might not be right for somebody else, or it might not be what the stereotype is. Find what works for you and, lean into that. my favorite metaphor in the whole thing was a metaphor about the river of creativity and then the ocean, and being out at sea as part of the industry. And then there's the middle ground of brackish water where the river kind of meets the sea and just trying to stay upstream as much as possible and accepting the ups and downs of this life.
To be able to remain up there upstream. As always, there are some topics that we touch on in this conversation that come as direct suggestions from our Patreon. Not only do they get advanced, notice of who our guests are, they also get the intense moral satisfaction of supporting this show financially [00:02:00] in the only way possible currently.
So if you would like to dive deeper into what we talk about, if you would like to have your burning questions answered by some of our upcoming guests, or if you would like to support the production of our show so we can continue making these episodes. Please check the link below in our show notes.
Michaela: Yeah, we really, really appreciate that. and if you're a visual person, this episode and all of our episodes are available to watch on YouTube.
Aaron: But without further ado, here is our conversation with Dave House.
Michaela: We have a 4-year-old who decided to be awake like all night. Um, and we,
Dave: I'm
Michaela: have a seven month old who sleeps really well, but she woke him up.
So if our vocabulary and our conversational skills are not up to par, just blame our children.
Dave: I mean, I have twins, so my brain has been beaten into mush.
Aaron: Yeah.
Dave: so we can just sort of our way through this.
Aaron: especially once you get up into having two kids, there's like, there's two modes.
You either just you do it or you do it tired.
can't just like, just stop. I [00:03:00] wouldn't do anything.
Dave: There's no stopping.
Michaela: There's no napping, there's no resting. We just have to find the words to get
Dave: I will there.
I have three sisters. They all have kids, multiple
and four, I was like struggling. I don't know what was going on at maybe the festival. I forget. And my sister, Sarah was like, you're about to turn a corner. And I was like, oh, so sweet.
And I told. months later, I was like, where's this fucking corner?
Because, was like, I might have been a little premature. I was just trying to give you hope. I was like, no, I need facts. When do we turn and what's on the other side of the corner?
Dave: it didn't feel like till maybe five and a half that the corner turned. So I was like, don't gimme false hope at four and a half. This is brutal.
Aaron: it is. Did you, did you just see my hopeful phase though, of like oh five
Michaela: and a half? that's why I'm trying to
Okay.
Dave: patience. I'm really trying to make sure that I don't give you false hope. You will turn a corner at some point
with the 4-year-old, depending. Do you have a girl or a boy?
Aaron: We have a girl.
Dave: Oh, well this [00:04:00] could be helpful.
Aaron: Yeah. So far our experience, you know, you hear somebody say you're about to turn a corner, and it feels hopeful, and we've turned corners, but it's been worse.
Dave: I know, and I mean, my sister Sarah has a really thick Philly accent she's total ham. She's super funny, but she was like, yeah. That corner was a little further up the road than I let on, but you know, I was just trying to give you and Natasha some hope. I was like what the fuck?
Come on you gotta do better. I need substantive evidence based, oh, here's where their brain improves
Michaela: Yeah. Yeah, I was, I do think, I mean, I also, people are like, oh, three is way worse than 2 0 4 is actually way worse than three. And I don't know, I think some things are worse, some things are better. She can communicate so much more clearly and that's incredible. Sometimes it's maddening at three in the morning when she's like, I'm not scared, I just don't wanna be in my room.
Like,
Dave: I mean,
the problem, to me seems just to be like [00:05:00] as joyful as so much of that is, it's the other pulls of life that make it, like you're like, I gotta work.
It's that part of it that
Michaela: That
Dave: you'll never remember, and then you'll go, like, look at the pictures in the video and go like, Why was I so fried?
Aaron: hmm.
Dave: I remember any of this? Well, Because you're trying to do a career thing as well, or you're trying to do whatever other thing you're trying to do. And that's
Michaela: That's,
Dave: I think is like sad. And also you can let yourself off the hook. It's like, well, I had to work to feed your little ass, so
I can't remember how
Aaron: I can't remember how cute you were.
And that.
Dave: my temper.
Aaron: Yeah. Yeah.
Michaela: this is actually a good segue into talking about your creative work as well and how a lot of this life is the commentary in your songwriting.
But there's just another school shooting. There's the Texas floods. There's so many things that keep that fear of losing our children, like so on the surface. it confuses me I'm like, what in the long term will be good for my child's development and holding boundaries [00:06:00] and keeping her safe?
And what is coming from me acting out of fear that. Something bad could happen. So I will be glad that I cuddled her to sleep instead of saying, no, you have to sleep in your own bed. We sleep in your own bed. So it's so difficult, like all of our actions are within this context of what's happening around us.
And I think about that all the time of like, parenting would feel so different if I wasn't being pulled by these other things I need to do and also want to do. And then also as a mother, the music industry is like a whole other role in the relationship to parenting and career.
Dave: it seems to be just like. A problem of evolution. So technology has evolved in an explosive way, and our human brains have
Aaron: hmm.
Dave: know,
we are probably better served acting much closer to cave people. You know, When it comes to raising our kids, then
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: this, because [00:07:00] there was much more tragedy, I'm sure when humans were developing because the infant mortality rate was higher.
You know, People didn't live as long, but they weren't being inundated with it from
Michaela: Twitter
Dave: And
Aaron: so
Dave: I
Aaron: I think it's just
Dave: general anxiety in the culture. From, we have too much information to process, you know? and so then you go how can I synthesize all the stuff that's coming at me?
How can I be a concerned citizen who, votes locally, appropriately, and cares about my fellow man and does this stuff for the school board and all that other stuff while keeping, the wolves at bay in terms of like all the other stuff that's coming at you. I just left for tour and I had a hundred or so days where I was at home with my sons at six, which there is a corner that I
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: it's so magical.
It's so awesome. Like, We spent most of the summer skateboarding and took a big
Michaela: road trip. I mean, It was just so magical to
Dave: that time off. So then I'm leaving, they're going back to school. There's all this transition. It's very [00:08:00] painful Despite me liking my
Michaela: job,
Dave: sad to say goodbye to the people that I love the most.
And,
Michaela: know.
Dave: 6-year-old brains can only handle a certain amount of information then you open up your newsfeed and a boy in Ventura died on the beach like freakishly, you know, he fell off a rock or whatever. And I'm sure that's been happening for as long as there's been humans. I don't want to know about it because I'm like I gotta go home.
I think that whole soup of information and just what our brains are now exposed to in mo modern world is too much, especially when you're trying to keep quiet. My therapist said you know, when the boys were really little like,
Michaela: your job
Dave: keep the home calm.
You can't be working out every issue maritally or socially or whatever in the home. Your job is to keep that home safe and secure for the, small children to kind of like attune and adapt. And I'm like, oh, right.
Michaela: so
Dave: It's definitely hard in, modern age to do it the [00:09:00] fact that you care, I think means you're probably doing it well because you care enough to think it through.
Aaron: Yeah. That's, the paradox of the whole thing, you know, it's hard because you care, but yeah, you know, especially like, you said, like our, access to information overload is insane like you were saying with the, calmness, like I think about that a lot of like. Basically like being the shock absorber for the world. So the world comes at us,
we are the shock absorber and what needs to come out the other side is like a nice smooth road, which
Dave: a,
person who, when they're your age, can absorb further shock without melting down,
Aaron: that's such a challenge because that really
Dave: mean that I'm moving the ball forward because I didn't absorb shock well for
Aaron: 25 years or something.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: mental health addiction, divorce, all kinds of just crazy madness. And that was before we had social media.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: Yeah, I mean, it's, like no one's gonna get a smooth road, but if you give. Your children, the [00:10:00] ability to manage the road that's coming at 'em, like then you've done the job.
it's wild. I mean, I definitely can only take so much political news
Aaron: especially in the second term the whole approach is to get clickbait, have
Mm-hmm.
Dave: back
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: And I can't stay in that loop. I have like, other things to do.
have to get to work, I have to get my kids to school. Like I can't be in that loop. And so at that point you do sort of actively make a decision to not be as engaged your goings on because like you have a, larger calling.
Michaela: part of that larger calling as an artist. I'm curious if you can speak to how you've seen that change in your life. if I'm correct, you've been making records and writing songs for over 30 years
Dave: That sounds too long. That
Michaela: That's what, that's what the internet said.
Dave: I
Michaela: I mean,
Dave: 47, so that would be started at 17. Yeah.
Michaela: okay. So creating in a large period of time, and trying to keep that just contained to like adulthood versus comparing to when we were [00:11:00] children, but adulthood, our access to information, the technology, everything. How have you seen that change? How you create or your relationship to your creativity?
Dave: they're all just tools to get the job done. Seems like there's a lot more paint colors to paint
Aaron: Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: that's the interfaces we were discussing earlier in like a home studio there's just more access to inspiration too.
You have can hear every recorded thing. and then you do have that wealth of information we were just sort of lamenting which can be a wellspring for creativity or responding to your surroundings. But
Michaela: yeah, I mean I think that.
Dave: again another paradox. we've got tons to pull from and tons of ways to respond to it and create.
Michaela: yeah, I think
Dave: hopefully you, keep your North star, the
Michaela: the fact that.
Dave: You
Michaela: are trying to keep a child life,
Dave: amount wonder when it comes to creativity.
Michaela: know, watching your kids,
Dave: you're like, oh, wow. whatever comes to mind, they just draw back [00:12:00] or they just sing that, and like pretty pure, and I think, it's a tightrope as an older person to kind of like into that and
Aaron: that
Dave: and that like abandon
Aaron: mm-hmm.
Dave: try to temper it with taste, and like, okay, well a bad lyric.
You shouting about hitting your brother over the head with a stick in the, Kitchen like, but that's a good melody. You know, So you're just trying to decipher like what's coming through you and then trying to hone it in a way that's the most compelling. I think that's generally what I think of as my And I've probably said this in many podcasts, so forgive me for being repetitive, but I
Michaela: I just think of a river,
Dave: and the
Michaela: A river is created
Dave: right? And when you're by
Michaela: by the river
Dave: your job is to like pull little fish out of creativity and like be in this pure drinkable water.
Michaela: And the the water goes towards ocean, Ocean. filled with sharks and it's dark and scary. And that's the industry, that's
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: you have to swim and you either sink or swim. [00:13:00] And
Aaron: And then there's like
Dave: water, which is where the pure meets. It's not quite out to the ocean, but that's where you're like.
what order should the songs go in and what the single, what's the catchiest
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: allow us the best path into the ocean?
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: And so that more or less starts as soon as you get into the studio. 'cause you have to make a ton of like little decisions.
Alright, I want to play that part twice. But let's face it, no one wants to hear that part twice. so that's like a brackish water decision 'cause you're making a commercial decision. Does that mess with the original intent? Not really.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: intent is this creative germ that you're like fostering out into the ocean,
Michaela: It's kind of like raising a child.
you want that
Dave: idea to hopefully get out into the ocean and survive.
Michaela: So
Dave: that's
Michaela: kind
of
Dave: best working
Michaela: metaphor
Dave: it all. And and I think it's helpful to think about it that way. 'cause I like to stay upstream for as long as possible. like right now, I'm not at all there. You know, I'm playing shows, I'm doing interviews.[00:14:00]
This is the brackish water. If not, this is like out in the ocean.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: because I'm promoting a record I'm trying to feed my family and, play shows. And then
Michaela: then you have to turn all that off
Dave: you're about to perform. Because when you're about to perform, that's a whole other endeavor I
Michaela: I,
Dave: think of it as like I'm trying to Lee Roth Connor O Burst, or Patty Griffin and David Lee Roth.
Aaron: mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Dave: vulnerable and compelling and that's the way we're gonna like, transcend emotionally. But then also like, I wanna have fun and everybody there wants to blow off So that's a whole other thing about trying to get into the head space of. performing for me, that is another like weird hat you have to like jam on and then go out onto
It's a weird, life.
Aaron: Yeah, I was just gonna ask if you have tools or practices that you use to shift through all of these gears? 'cause I mean, we've been talking for 10 minutes and we've shifted through at least five to seven different roles in life, and for me, like sometimes I've got clean transmission fluid, a new clutch, all of that, it's like, woo, [00:15:00] this shift's great.
And other times I'm like, this clutch is gone and I need to go from second gear to third gear, and I just jam it in there. So I wondering if you found anything that works for you.
Dave: Um, I would say the thing that works the best is breathing. You know, Mm-hmm. therapy, I drank for 20 years heavily.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: seemed to work until it didn't.
Aaron: Yep. Mm-hmm.
Dave: And I mostly joke, but that was a useful crutch at a time. I think breathing, I got bumped up to first class for a long flight I was sat next to a, neuroscientist that lives in Santa Barbara. And
Michaela: And this woman
Dave: done
Michaela: every
Dave: job in life.
Michaela: She has.
Dave: attendant, a pilot, like She
Michaela: She's
Dave: And
Michaela: I think now
Dave: it's a little bit more available and being talked about. But this was a couple years ago and she just was like, look, here are breathing techniques for you to shift from.
'cause I was like, oh, you know, I just did a European tour. It's where our audience is the biggest, and I'm going back into like seeing my tiny children. And she was like, oh, you need to breathe. You need to like, breathe out the rockstar [00:16:00] guy breathe in the dad guy. And I was like, okay lady. What the fuck are you talking? But she was like no, no. I am a neuroscientist. Like, This is what happens to your brain when you breathe and how you breathe. Is, part of it. Honestly, that's been the most helpful tool. Right before I go on, before I go back into the house after a tour in the middle of a quarrel between my twin boys, you
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: breathing, helping them regulate, getting on their eye level, like there's all these like, physical aspects to it too.
But
Michaela: yeah,
Dave: a lot of that pivoting. You have to breathe through and then you're like,
Michaela: like
you're
able to
Dave: your brain a little and then move forward.
Aaron: when I do remember to breathe, I'm not gonna claim to say like, oh, I've been breathing, it's great. I'm like. This monastic saint on top of a, a mountain.
But it has felt like, rejuvenating ice water when I do remember that. It's just like, oh okay,
being the calm in the middle of the storm
Dave: There's all these other, ancillary things. There's I mean there's
Aaron: exercise
Dave: obviously that's pivotal, what you eat, how much you sleep, which, good luck with that
then [00:17:00] also, there are those sauna and cold
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: all that stuff is legit. You know, You're changing your, physical
Aaron: chemistry,
Dave: guess, or,
or
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: big
Aaron: things
Dave: about your environment quickly. And I find that stuff to all be helpful. I'm not sure how much of it is placebo, and I definitely don't care.
I'm just
Michaela: Yeah.
Dave: I think this
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: working
Aaron: Yeah.
Dave: of it is like you're actively trying to make little changes throughout the day to get on the right foot. And if that is placebo, fine if the change occurs, I don't really care how we get there.
Aaron: I am and was kind of raised as like kind of a little bit of a skeptic, you know, healthy dose of skepticism, healthy dose of cynicism way I've. come to define it with myself is it's the intention that makes the
change.
it could be whatever it is. if you're doing it with pure intention, it's I'm doing this so that I can achieve, that is what makes the change. 'cause like I can take whatever, or do whatever it is that's like proven, but if I'm not like mentally they're in presence of doing it, it's not gonna do anything.
It [00:18:00] doesn't matter like how proven it is.
Dave: doing the work and half of doing the work is like showing up for work.
Michaela: Yeah. And we do know from research, like what, practices help human beings feel healthier and be healthier. We know that like. Drinking alcohol and eating shitty food and not sleeping and doing drugs is not going to
sustain.
Dave: fun.
Michaela: it's crazy. I mean, We're in our late thirties and I'm like the number of people that we've seen in our peer group who've like had liver failure in their forties. You know, It's just like, we know these things. And the challenge, of having a specifically touring musician life I think is finding your own balance of how do I do the things to be a healthy human being.
Whether that is, exercising regularly, sleeping regularly, abstaining from drugs and alcohol, whatever it is that, you need to be healthy. [00:19:00] And maintaining that while doing the things that I think I need to do to have a successful career and touring relentlessly all this stuff. they don't create the environment to be consistent with those things that are required to be healthy.
So it's really a big personal challenge. It's not a community that supports it. the just infrastructure of touring, playing in bars, all of that stuff. I mean, we see this again, we've had over a hundred conversations with people. We, our musicians ourself that have come up into this, community, all of our friends are musicians and we see the same cycles all the time, which
is
you start out and we all have this kind of idea.
And jump in. What's fun, it's a party. Also the lore, whether we're conscious of it or not, of what it is to be a musician of having this kind of fun, reckless life partying with each other, I have a quote from you that I found of, I don't want my life to become fodder for songs. I want my creativity to be fodder for [00:20:00] songs.
But I think a lot of us do think oh, we gotta live this crazy life and then we'll have inspiration for songs. And most people we see get to a point in their life where they can't sustain it anymore and have to make some positive changes to continue on this path. Can you speak a little bit about that, of what that was like for you to make those shifts and how to stay on that path while also continuing to have a touring career?
Dave: I mean, these were just tiny lessons you learned along the way. looked at partying from many different angles 'cause I had done it for so long and I just started to think, okay, well I've been divorced once already. I've lost a successful international touring act that had a
Michaela: a lot of problems.
Dave: that's gone.
And I have a, solo career and a new potential wife, I'm living in California where the stakes are higher, it's more expensive, and, how many times do you get another shot? So I had a shot with the loved ones like, you know, there were friends of mine who were like, Hey man, [00:21:00] you've got a shot here as a solo artist.
Like, People are coming out to see you kind of thing. I just thought well, now I'm really gambling again with things, the ability to have it all. And I remember Chuck Reagan's wife, Jill told me on a, bus one time, we were up late, don't even know if she was drinking. I was drinking.
she said to me, you know, if you made minor tweaks, you could have it all. the rest of the tour, we would go for the Jameson bottle and she, you know, I'd go minor tweaks and I could have it
Aaron: all right.
Dave: like it really stuck with me. It still sticks with me. But I think just over time I started to think well, hey, I'm getting older.
I'm pushing 40. I kind of know what this pattern is. Party, push it to the limit and then feel shitty and repeat. And I
Michaela: I know
Dave: this doesn't end well.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: knowing it doesn't end well as one part, but another part was just like, this is a known commodity and I'm a little bit intellectually bored by
Like,
what if I just was able to read more and write more songs and like did something else. Like, [00:22:00] Am I gonna define myself if I get 75 years on the planet, or let's hope now it's 95 'cause I have children, but I spend 20 or 30 or 40 of them drinking. It's like boring. You know, Athletes at the top of their game get like 20 years of doing the sport and that's exciting and compelling.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. they have to move on and do something else. Am I
Michaela: I say? Yeah.
Dave: My life was characterized by alcohol. I don't know. That just seemed lame I was squandering some little promise that my English teacher. Saw something in me and was like, you could do things, you could do things beyond the scope of what you think are currently possible.
And it would be ammer. for that English teacher to be like, yeah, he could have, but all he did was drink and take drugs, you know? so that was
Aaron: Mean
Dave: of it. I mean, I just think there's little changes, but also like, at the
Aaron: the end of the day,
Dave: if you look a little bit closer to the archetypes and the, people who have gone ahead, Springsteen works out the
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: and writes [00:23:00] songs all the time.
He's not out snorting cocaine and, staged diving into Christmas trees. he's working, working, working. And he has an enormous breadth of work to show for it. Joel for years. From what I can tell, chasing women,
getting Hammer. and driving up the Long Island Expressway having a great, exciting rockstar life didn't put out songs for decades. I'm not sure that there's a corollary there. I don't know, I can't speak to whatever, but I will say at a certain point, like Taylor Swift works
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: all the time at writing songs and is really, really good at it. And I just noticed when I was like, got sober and
Michaela: now
Dave: I've
Michaela: put
Dave: I don't know, 65,
Michaela: five,
Dave: songs, I don't know, six records, five
Aaron: like a lot of material.
Dave: And in the years where I was heavily drinking as a solo artist, I had put out two and then you're like, oh, I gotta go back on the road. 'cause I didn't write any songs [00:24:00] or I only wrote four songs. And so I
Michaela: I
Dave: like leaning
Michaela: think like
Dave: creative part of who you are and not the like. Reckless abandon part of who you are yields a
Michaela: the more interest
Dave: result and a more compelling result.
Michaela: And the more is half of that is made up and half of it is irrelevant because they could afford better drugs. You know, like, Yeah, they
Aaron: mm-hmm.
Dave: all the time, but they weren't getting them from some guy in a Nashville bar that had been stomped on Keith Richards was getting really good drugs.
And that doesn't do the same thing to your system that the drugs I was getting were,
Aaron: Yeah. I mean there, there's a lot of truth to that
Dave: that's the thing. Like, I'm also not like a big booster for sobriety. I'm just trying to call it like I see it,
for me, like when we don't speak clearly about some of this stuff, I tend to smell a rat. Like you said, you're a skeptic.
there is that contingent of sobriety where it's like, well, I just had to yield to my higher like, yo, I would much rather be partying
from a gut instinct level, like
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: basis [00:25:00] instinct. It's like drugs, and rock and roll. But at a certain point, like I'm also pushing 50 years old like I have people that I care about and that care about me.
And know, this is
Aaron: is ridiculous. Like This
Dave: you can't just
Aaron: party
Dave: if you're a tile sitter
And so if this is my job and I get paid to do it, I have to work. And so it would be absurd to show up to work wasted. It's super
Aaron: so I
Dave: I
Aaron: like dug
Dave: my working class commitments or
Michaela: to
Dave: or something
Michaela: tenacity or something, or
Aaron: whatever that be
Dave: like, I'm a working class person. I wanna work. and I
Aaron: and I think all that
Dave: created like at least path forward for not doing what I've been doing for all those years.
Aaron: Yeah, I hear that. And for me like,
most of the people I grew up with are working like. Laborer, hard work jobs, and they might party all night, but like they get up at five and they go to work and they work really hard for 10 hours straight and
come home and take care of what they need to take, you know, call it functional alcoholism, if you will.
But like through that is still like, there's a respect for the work, and this is a [00:26:00] broad generalization, but I see it like there's a trap in us as artists, as a profession growing up. And like I had idols, I had people that I've really looked up to, musicians and all of that.
And it's like, wow. And it started there, you know, it was like this intriguing like, I love this music, I love this person. I love this person. Oh, that's cool. And then you get this whole like, stereotype characterization of like the troubled artist, the partying artist the, I'm gonna throw a TV out, the hotel window into the pool.
Like all that,
Dave: you start reading the biographies.
Aaron: Yeah, exactly. so there's that. Then there's also like, that myth gets debunked I think the business side of being an artist, quicker than it does on the fan side, if that makes sense. So I think us as artists see like, oh, there was a lot more going on here than that, where fans are like, no, artists, all they do is just like play music and they get to party and like the life is great.
It's like having to do the business. We see there's so much more that has to happen besides being on stage.
Dave: I think that's changing though. I think that the fans, at least our fans are savvy.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: that, there's that [00:27:00] punk rock thing. I think they pay extra attention. And I think songwriting fans are really like they feel
Aaron: For sure.
Dave: cracked yourself open. so they're more apt to sort of dig down and go like, what's really going on here?
And you see the question on your. Social media, like what's the best way to support you guys? Meaning they've read an article
Aaron: Spotify, Mm-hmm.
Dave: an article about Live Nation, and all these corporations that have made our, our work even more difficult.
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Dave: think that they're trying to meet us where we're at.
And so
Michaela: I think that's changing
Dave: in that
Michaela: I
mean.
Dave: like how much of a myth can be created about an artist you're going to see in a 300 cap room.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Like
Dave: if you're there and there's 150 people, you're like well, I know this person is not a rock star.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: person is a musician that has spoken to me,
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: this is gonna be
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: but I'm here for something else.
And that's where
Aaron: you have
Dave: the David Lee Roth part with the Patty Griffin part
Aaron: Mm-hmm. you're there to
Dave: connect in various ways, I think, for the [00:28:00] performance. And you can get up on the stage and act like you're in Oasis, but everybody in the
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Dave: not playing a stadium, you're not playing in an arena, you're playing in a small club.
And there's a different kind of transcendence that you can get from that
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: it with some level honesty and directness. I've tried to lean into that. there's times where I'll have the whole band, you know, you'd warm up and you get ready to go on stage, it's feels like a boxing gym or whatever.
And the intro's going whatever, you know, the, playlist, you've got a half hour or whatever. And sometimes I'll,
Michaela: Like put on
Dave: Carlisle. There's this song she wrote about a friend of hers who I think took their own life. called that year. And it's like heartbreaking.
It's heartbreaking. Like she gets into the vulnerability of being a teenager and how she was angry at this person. And I'll
Michaela: I put that on
Dave: and be like, there's someone in the front row who's going through something like that. And they don't necessarily want you to just be the clash. They want [00:29:00] some form of like legit vulnerability to hit them in a, way on a Thursday night amidst the maelstrom of a rock and roll show.
And so so I try to
do that if I'm feeling a little too masculine energy or something little too like, yeah, yeah, come on, let's do this.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: gotta remember like what the point is what's the desired effect? it's a lot of switch tracking your mental like, okay, what's, what are we trying to do here?
Let me write the set list appropriately and let me be willing and able to change if the room is not receiving the transmission properly.
Michaela: I feel like that's something that I could talk about forever of just like the mental fortitude that it actually requires to sustain a lifelong career as a. Public professional musician who like is not only creating for your whole life, creating new material, but also engaging with their audience and building a professional career on their art.
And I think that's a really important aspect [00:30:00] that, especially for younger artists I don't know if I wholeheartedly understood that. Like, I remember my, dad's a military guy. He's a 30 year career submarine captain, and he was a, a wrestler and personal trainer on the side and his spare time as a nuclear submarine captain.
Dave: I gotta get But up with this neuroscientist
Michaela: yeah, for real that I won't even go into the depths of why he should also be hooked up with a neuroscientist of our, our family. Um, just like brain stuff. Anyways, I remember early on him saying to me like, if you wanna do this, if you wanna be a musician, like I think you need to approach this like an athlete.
He was like, you need to train. And so my parents were always very supportive of like I had lessons and they were like, if we're paying for lessons, you need to practice and you
need to be, you know, doing this stuff. And I went to a music school, that's where we met in college.
But I think somewhere along the way when I started playing in bars in my twenties and like got really infatuated with like old school country music and I lost my way a little [00:31:00] bit and my community was not to be disparaging of that community, but I don't feel like that kind of more principled, academic, disciplined approach was.
popular or celebrated. sleep. Yes.
Dave: something else.
Michaela: Yeah, exactly.
so I feel like a, like a tinge of maybe like embarrassment of how I feel like it's taken me a long time, but I don't even wanna say I have embarrassment because I think we learn the things we need to learn in
the time we need to learn them.
But it excites me because I do a lot of songwriting coaching it's exciting to me what happens when we have consistency and discipline. And I mean, Aaron is way bigger on this. He's just n naturally a, more disciplined person than me. I feel like it takes a lot more emotional work on my end to stay consistent with something.
Dave: Yeah. it's really. Yeah, exciting to see what happens creatively and then also just what can be produced, opportunity wise or not. I [00:32:00] try not to even be attached to like the outcomes, but just energetically and creatively what can happen when you keep your mind and body healthy and show up for the work on a regular basis, which can be really hard when you're pulled by all the other stuff.
Michaela: Even mentally getting caught up in like, well, how come it's not going as well as I hoped it would be going by now? Or, how come I'm not making as much money as I thought I would be making? Or, how come I don't have as many followers as I thought I would have by now? And I succumb to that stuff often and then have to be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
How do I stay consistent in the work that I have control over, which is one of the foundations of why we have this podcast.
Dave: Our keyboard player, mark. Is awesome. He's got great energy. He's really talented. you know, he's like the musician in the band. He plays also with Will Hogue
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dave: um,
he calls Will Hogue, his music band, and he calls us his fun band,
Michaela: Oh,
Dave: you talk about, talk about the [00:33:00] Dagger to the heart.
I know what he's doing. He's fucking with Will and Me.
Aaron: hey.
Dave: is gonna be like, man, we're not the fun band. Come on. You know? But um, I get what he's doing. But ultimately, like we just did three shows in Philly the last three nights, which was like a huge party. The bands all there.
We did a big free show in Philly, then we did like a sold out record thing in, in the Suburbs. And then we did this political fundraiser yesterday. Mark got into town and he's all amped up and he's like, yo, two singles are out. How's it
Michaela: it going?
Dave: And I was like, do you mean?
How's it. It seems like you know that this is gonna be, this is and, and he had like that energy and I was like, oh dude, don't know. we have to like write the next record.
I was like, get caught up in how it's going, how it's going. He is like, I hope, well,
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: songs are starting to come out.
They're gonna go out into that ocean and live or die. We have shows to play. We have meaningful work ahead where we can hopefully connect with an audience that hopefully shows up. But I have to make the next thing. I have to start thinking about making the next thing because [00:34:00] the minute we go, oh
Aaron: Oh.
Dave: it's going so well, there's 10,000 more streams on the new song than there was on the last song.
got caught. Swinging, because that pitch has already come and gone. we did that work. Now it's time for that work to come out and for people to connect with it. And I want to give that work it's fair shake,
Michaela: right?
Dave: By playing the songs live, but it's time to start thinking about what's next so that we can continually provide for not only ourselves, but for the band, for my kids. There's a lot to do. you could tell he was a little bit puzzled like, well, why wouldn't we celebrate how many streams look alive as God?
Because if you do that, you're gonna wish it was more.
Or how do we get it from, 65,000 to 85? I don't know. we have a manager and he'll tell us how we can best try to do that. But
Michaela: But also like,
Dave: not the point. We'll do as much as we can to support that work and get it heard as we can, but we have to make more work.
That's the job.
Michaela: And so
Dave: I
Michaela: I think that whole comparison
Dave: it
Michaela: it goes back to
Dave: earlier part
Michaela: [00:35:00] part
Dave: conversation where you
Michaela: where you go,
Dave: you're not
Michaela: not
Dave: to color
your picture
as a
Michaela: child
Dave: and then compare it to your friend. That's what we all do.
Michaela: And
Dave: then your picture looks crappier,
Michaela: And now have
Dave: times, you know, we can put out a single and go like, oh, more people are listening than last time. And then you look at your buddies and your buddy has more streams. Or you look at Adele and she's obviously got the most streams. so like, what are you doing? it's got nothing to do with them.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: own thing. and that's true at the bar, if you're hanging out after, 'cause you're like, oh, I might have to talk to this. who could help my career. They're all drunk. Just go home. They're not gonna remember if you left. you're better off staying close to that upper part of the river where it's like, I'll get up and make something new.
it'll at least clear the cobwebs and maybe it'll beat this thing that we're celebrating tonight.
Aaron: there's so much in what you just said, you know, like what I like to impress upon aa, I work with here friends, like all of that. It's like, there's all this celebration about releasing a song or releasing a record, and as there should be, right?
You're putting it out in the [00:36:00] world.
But like, what I like to shine a light on is That word release can mean many things. You are releasing control, before you put out a song or a record, you have a hundred percent control over everything.
When it comes out, what it looks like, you can rerecord and remix a song for literally decades if you want to, but as soon as it is out in public, you have no control.
So like what your keyboard player was saying is like, how do we get it from here that you don't,
there's absolutely nothing you can
do. You know show, bud.
Exactly. This is it
Dave: key
Aaron: that, yeah,
Dave: in time. And people go, that's a a cool song. Maybe I should buy the record.
Aaron: that's it. Yeah,
Dave: other thing though about that what I've started to lean more into is,
Aaron: maybe this was
Dave: true, but it seems to me like in modern times, and as I get older, the anticipation is most of the fun.
I was like, oh, maybe that's just in new music thing, because you like make the songs, you're excited, oh, this could be a hit or whatever. And then you record 'em and you're like,
Michaela: oh my God,
Dave: got the production right. Oh, it's coming out on September 54th or whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, [00:37:00] blah.
Great. But then it comes out and you're like, I'm celebrating. But. I kind of liked it four days ago and I had something to look forward to.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: I started realizing this was happening with vacations and trips.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: It was like of it for my wife is like the planning of it. Oh man. But you might get to the trip and it rains,
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: the kids have a meltdown or you're like, oh, this food sucks.
There's bugs everywhere on this beach. And the anticipation of the trip was actually, 80% of why you took it. And it was something to look forward to. And it was exciting. And I think on some level, again, not talking so much about the, creativity, but also the workflow.
Michaela: You're like well, let's just keep creating that
Dave: and kicking the can down the road. If I know we're, gonna go into the studio in a couple months, it'll push me to get more creative. Knowing I have a deadline and it's something to look forward to, and then we can repeat this cycle again
Michaela: instead of being like, oh,
Dave: released
all of the work we have in the vault or something.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: [00:38:00] something to
Aaron: having that.
Dave: anticipatory joy.
Michaela: I also think not dissimilar from, you said you knew that cycle from drinking, that you just like, got bored of it. Yeah,
Dave: Yeah.
Michaela: I feel like I observe in the cycle of the music career path of like, make music, promote it, anticipate releasing it, release it, and then oh my God, what's gonna happen?
And like building the excitement and then the ultimate let down of like, well, it doesn't feel as good as I thought it was gonna feel, or the riding of the wave that eventually does fade.
I've gotten bored of that I was talking to a friend recently who was putting out an album and we were kind of talking about the changing relationship and being in our thirties and mothers having doing this, it's very different putting out music now compared to our twenties when then it would be like being on tour all the time and partying and all this stuff.
And it was just kind of this like, The excitement feels different. And maybe it's a mindset shift of not ramping up, release day and also consuming [00:39:00] everything through your phone of like, how many people are listening, how many people like it, how many people comment. And I was like, what if we changed our mind that it wasn't this fireworks day of release and what if it was like this soft offering of I'm putting this record out that now is going to be out there for the rest of time for people to discover tomorrow when it
comes out, or 20 years from now.
And feel that all the time I heard a Jayhawk song on the radio the other day and had never heard it before and looked up the record and it was a record that came out 20 years ago and I listened to it incessantly for weeks and I was like,
this is my new favorite song that came out 20
years ago. Mm-hmm. So I feel like it's kind of, again, us finding How to keep ourselves like regulated so that if maybe for us, I know for me I don't do well anymore with like the constant rollercoaster of the business side as well. And rather just being like, I keep making work that I'm
going to release and share with the world that's gonna be out there [00:40:00] forever.
Rather than the, like,
what's happening with it? who's liking it?
Dave: it's like,
yeah. The sacred thing that you said is like the offering, and that's beautiful. That's a really. Spiritual way to look at it. And I think that that's awesome because I do think that's what you're tapping into.
Aaron: And there's like
Dave: where
Aaron: where you're like,
Dave: making
Aaron: can
Dave: Sometimes you gotta be like, man, I need a can
Aaron: canopy? Mm-hmm.
Dave: the cupboard
Aaron: there
Dave: and you're like,
Aaron: shit, I forgot I had
Dave: and that
Aaron: Canopy.
Dave: you, so we have an old song in the set list and, there's a show an Amazon show that is being made, and they just like synced two of our
Aaron: songs
Dave: from records ago.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: and again, it was like they found a can of beans in there that they were like, we love that song. And when I get my own show, I'm putting that in my,
Aaron: and I'm like, I don't even believe
Dave: songs.
Dave: so you're like, oh, that's cool that somebody's still interfacing with that
Aaron: in a way where A, they wanna pay. Mm-hmm.
Dave: B, their creativity.
is augmented or, made better by the use of this thing that we made a long time [00:41:00] ago. That's so cool.
I really do think you just have to get your perspective right, because you're an adult working. My manager's really good at this. this was early on when we were working together.
He's quite young
and he's very candid. one of the things he said, I was like, I don't know, man. I'm not sure if this record is up to the you know, like, maybe I've made my best work. and he goes, yeah, okay. Congratulations on having the only kind of job where this conversation gets talked about.
and I was like, what are you talking about? And he goes, your best buddy. Adolph is a teacher. You think he ever goes, man, I think the best lessons I taught were 2007, you know?
Aaron: Yeah.
Dave: goes,
he goes, your other buddy Brendan he runs the beer distributor. You think he's going, man, I don't know if I can run this place as well as I did in 2012.
He's like, it's fucking absurd.
He was like, just do the work.
you are good at it. You'll do good work. Keep doing work.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: like, yeah, that is absurd. And it's [00:42:00] great to not just be around musicians. I
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: that challenging in Nashville.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: there and it's like the Promised Land, you know, it's everyone from LA and New York has converged there.
There's all these studios. It's like La, la Land.
Dave: everyone plays
Aaron: music and
Dave: than us at it. And you're like, and oh yeah, here's a studio. You're like, what?
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: I find if I'm there too long is people are talking about only music
Michaela: but not even only music, music
business. Yeah. So that, that, that's a
Aaron: big thing for me. We lived in New York City for 12 years before we moved here, and in New York you have a ton of musicians, but you also have a ton of. Dancers, a ton of actors,
a ton of, right. Like all art forms. And so you can get together and the commonality then is creativity.
And when you're in Nashville, yes, there are, I guess some actors, some dancers, somebody, it's changing. It's, diversifying, but it's still predominantly musicians. And so like it just kind of inevitably turns into a work conference where you're talking about the business and what works on the industry, and it's like something?
Dave: face it. I [00:43:00] mean, I love Nashville, the
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: Work with, they've become like family. So many of them are the most people I know.
Aaron: Yeah. the community is what keeps us here.
Dave: And also Nashville is built on and continues to run on the same mentality that prospecting laws like California, everyone's a gold prospector to some degree
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: hundreds of songwriters who would otherwise like have to do artist careers are making their offering to get on the radio. The radio is a scarcity model, like gold,
Aaron: Mm-hmm. so
Dave: so you're trying to hit the lottery.
bass player, Luke, is Nashville songwriter, like he has a publishing Mm-hmm.
he's amazing at writing songs. Amazing. So fast. And he's taking all that energy and like, man, if I hit, I'm gonna hit big.
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Dave: that's different from creativity.
Michaela: Yeah.
Dave: creativity to hit the lottery.
And so on some level I'm like, [00:44:00] alright, well the radio is gonna go away. There'll still be ways to monetize songs. I get all that. But my point, I think on some level is it can be very tainting to the river to know I'm in there trying to pull out Phish and lots of songwriters in Nashville are just looking for gold, a fine line between the two.
You know, I am too kind of, I'm also trying to have a conversation with an audience. I would love it, If one of them hit big, it would be terrific.
Michaela: Yeah.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: It's not my goal when I'm pulling fish outta the river. And I think that is a distinction that, you know, it's just sort of, you come back to like, it's your path.
your kids, they're your songs. It's your day. Spend
Michaela: however you like.
Dave: But I find a lot of the ways that we're talking about that sound awful and challenging and soul sucking are choices.
Michaela: Yep.
Dave: don't wanna spend my day that way. you know, Luke, at different points, our bass player is like, well, you could do it dude.
You could get a, publishing deal. And like, I don't think you're right. I'm not as fast as I would need to be. And b, don't think I wanna spend my day that
Aaron: Oh,
Dave: Like, [00:45:00] I
Michaela: mm-hmm.
Dave: park with my kids
rather than like, do all the stuff I gotta do for my artist career and then go, okay, well maybe I can now write a hit that a country star might put on the radio
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: waning commodity. And I tease 'em sometimes. I'm like, where are all these Nashville people gonna go when radio's dead?
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: and when Nashville's really too
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: And
Aaron: Radio.
Dave: and satellite radio's, the only way to get a hit,
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: it is the intersection of art and commerce. And that part of it is just work.
that's the part you have to like, opt in and opt out of in terms of what you wanna spend your time thinking and talking about.
Michaela: Well, I think it's what you said. It's, your path, knowing what you want to do. individually, that's one of the things we love to talk about on this podcast is just learning what you're willing to do for what you want, and then understanding the consequences I've really come to terms with like, oh, I've been pining for this thing that I thought I wanted, but I realized I don't think I actually wanted it that bad [00:46:00] because I haven't wanted to do the things you need to do to get there.
I've wanted to prioritize my family life you know, all these other things. I don't wanna be sitting in a. writing room every single day or whatever it is that you're, not willing to do. And understanding, like you said, your relationship with your creative goals and your, business goals.
they are different person to person. And it can be a challenge to remember that and not fall into, oh, well maybe I should go over here, because that's what people are doing to be successful. Oh, wait, no. Okay. This is actually what I wanna do, so I'm gonna stay in my path.
Yeah, was having a conversation years ago with a friend of mine, a woman I was close to, I was talking about songwriting and she was like all I really need is half an hour's worth of material. And I was like, for what? She was like, then I
I,
Dave: opening set and then I can go open for like, everybody and then I'll need 45 minutes worth of a set, and then I need like an hour's worth of a set.
And I was like, you and I do this for entirely different reasons.[00:47:00]
Aaron: mm-hmm.
Dave: I had to respect that was her hustle and she wanted to be famous.
Dave: She wanted to be known, whatever
Michaela: whatever that is.
Dave: wanted like a high follower count, whatever. And it was like the songs are just a means to an end.
Aaron: I think my personality
Dave: should be a known commodity,
which I was like,
Michaela: okay,
Yeah. judge this, or I can just go with it. You're a good person
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: I think that this is probably gonna be a soul sucking endeavor for you, because if you just want to be known, what do you wanna be known for? But I do think all of that comes into play when you're making music. Everyone's got sort of a different agenda.
A lot of it is money and a lot of it is fame.
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Dave: And neither of those things are good for the soul. Neither of those things are good for your kids. Well, I guess the money part can be good for your kids. You gotta buy 'em a bigwig. but they're not what like, your kids need from you in excess,
Michaela: certainly not
Dave: or the notoriety part.
The money part can help, but ultimately like, know, we joke that [00:48:00] I'm stubbornly creative to my own detriment.
yes, I understand if that's the first song we'll hit the ground running faster. But like, I wanted to put out a political statement as the first thing we were doing on this record. And
Michaela: hopefully people
Dave: either liked it or didn't and was like well, maybe the next one I'll like, I
Michaela: I dunno.
Dave: maybe they
Michaela: Yeah.
Dave: it, but
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: like, I'm trying to do something else. And I think if you think about it in terms of business goals, I'm trying to do this as long as I possibly
Michaela: Mm-hmm.
Dave: Most of my friends who have done it and gotten really, really successful are now on the other side of the mountain. They're coming back down or they've come way back down. And at least due to the fact that it's never like totally taken off in like a giant way. For me, I'm always climbing. And that's, that anticipatory thing.
You're like, whoa, this is a little bit better than last time. And I can play whatever I want at the end. I don't have to play most known song last
Michaela: Yeah,
Dave: which a lot of legacy acts have to,
Michaela: everybody
Dave: really wants is the career of Will Hogue, I [00:49:00] think, where he can go play everywhere.
There's somebody coming and he has
Aaron: Mm-hmm. Yeah,
Michaela: the wood brothers call their career trajectory that I love the slow rise to the middle, they've been doing it for a long time and it just keeps getting a little better every time. Mm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: Yeah. But,
mean, That's
Michaela: mm-hmm.
Dave: Like not every company's Coca-Cola. there's one Coca-Cola, there's one Taylor Swift, Beyonce, you know, but ultimately the rest of us are out here working and
Michaela: they're working harder
Dave: than any of us could work. I
Michaela: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dave: see their show or see their output.
They're, certainly an example of how to like, be creative and work super hard at it. I
Michaela: I think comparison,
Dave: always gonna be the thief of joy. Don't look at what other people are doing, except for if you're looking for inspiration.
Aaron: Because,
Dave: there's certainly bands all open for who, yes, they're getting paid on the, gross much more than I am, I'm also keeping more of the pie.
Michaela: Yeah.
Dave: just by virtue of like, it's me,
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: here with my acoustic guitar, I'll sell the merch.
Michaela: Oh,
yeah.
Dave: keep all the money.
Aaron: Yep.
Dave: That's different from [00:50:00] Yeah man, we have three techs and a banner drop and a lighting guy and two trucks. It's like, yeah, that's cool, how much money do you have at the end of the show?
Aaron: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Dave: But there's all these metrics that are always swirling around that you don't really know exactly what somebody else's path is and it's better off to just determine what yours wants to be and how to get there. Stay focused and
Michaela: try to keep it
Dave: as you can. mo and what I would sort of say to my brother who's only two records in, or someone who is seeking advice.
I would just go like, just do what you want and try to make it sustainable. And who
Aaron: Cool.
Dave: what'll happen.
Aaron: Yeah. Yeah, Dave, have you listened to one of our shows before
Dave: I have not.
Aaron: that is literally how we like to end every show is ask, what would you tell somebody that's like, just getting started? Yeah. Like, nailed it. That's our, our last question,
Dave: getting started, again, like get asked this question often and I, typically just think someone who's got the goods to go the distance is probably not gonna listen to my advice.
Aaron: mm-hmm. [00:51:00] You know what
Mm-hmm.
Dave: probably gonna go this old fucker, I don't want to hear from him. I'm gonna do it my way.
our friend Jared Hart is a wonderful singer and songwriter. He's in a band called Mercy Union he came down this weekend and like Guitar Teched for us. 'Cause we had like a big Philly weekend
Michaela: Yeah.
Dave: he didn't bat an eyelash at the fact that he went from playing his guitar this weekend to like handing me a guitar.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: he's hustling. He works in the music industry doing whatever, he'll sell t-shirts for the bouncing souls. He'll go make a show and make a nice fee from, performing. He's hustling. And I
Michaela: I respect that. like my
Dave: my
Aaron: contractor working
Dave: class hero kind of
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: providing for himself in this weird ecosystem of friends and family in an honorable way.
Aaron: Mm-hmm. And he's not worried about like, well I'm, if I'm handing you the guitar on my uh, he's like, dude, it's a gig.
Yeah.
Dave: gig will be over. I'll be paid. I'm gonna move on. I'll go play. Like, It's so refreshing to work with people who [00:52:00] understand that
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: and don't get all jammed up on ego bullshit. And, every auteur, whether that's, Martin Scorsese or whatever, they've had to do something for money that they weren't that pumped on.
had to compromise somewhere. And this is like one of the finest filmmakers in the history of film. You know, If he's had to do it, then one of us is gonna have to do
I think just do it. There's parts of every job that are hard. I'm here to work. you know, like yesterday, like, I mean, this weekend was a sold out show, right?
A free show with of people and then a show to like 70 Democratic hopefuls.
Aaron: Mm-hmm.
Dave: That was my weekend, it was like so all over the map. But I was working,
Michaela: Yeah.
Dave: my kids are enjoying Labor Day with their friends and I was out working. like, for me to get jammed up on like, well, how many people are here?
How many? It's like, work. Keep going.
Aaron: Show up.
Dave: Canada tomorrow.
Aaron: Show up
Dave: and do it and be happy you have the work. to end on this might be helpful, like. when you have a music career of any kind, there's a dragon right [00:53:00] behind you. you can feel the dragon's breath, you know? and that dragon will eat you
and put someone else in your place. And I just always think of it that way. I'm like, when we were getting ready to play the Philly show, somebody was like are, are you fired up? And I was like, I'm nervous. This is a
Michaela: A good job.
Dave: And you can lose your You lose your job if you're not careful.
If you don't like do it at the highest level you possibly can.
And I always think that way. I mean, No matter what, we have a festival that we're going into our fourth year, and to me, I'm like, we're doing our best. was successful, but it's very possible that a dragon comes along and scorches that festival and it's gone,
Aaron: Yeah, know?
absolutely.
man. Dave, thank you so much for giving us your time and, your wisdom and really enjoyed this conversation.
Dave: Yeah. Likewise. was lovely. See you guys. Hopefully soon.
Aaron: Yeah, definitely. Take care.
Michaela: Bye.
Dave: Cheers. See ya. [00:54:00]