Duquette Johnston was a member of 90s rock band Verbana, touring with the Foo Fighters and releasing records on Merge and Setanta Records, has released a handful of solo records on labels such as Single Lock Records, owns the clothing and goods shop Club Duquette in Birmingham AL, and also spent time in Etowah County jail. We talk about how that incarceration changed his creative process, his entire outlook on his career, and also launched his solo career, as well as his interest in human design, and quest for human connection through music.
Duquette Johnston was a member of 90s rock band Verbana, touring with the Foo Fighters and releasing records on Merge and Setanta Records, has released a handful of solo records on labels such as Single Lock Records, owns the clothing and goods shop Club Duquette in Birmingham AL, and also spent time in Etowah County jail. We talk about how that incarceration changed his creative process, his entire outlook on his career, and also launched his solo career, as well as his interest in human design, and quest for human connection through music.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Aaron: Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of The Other 22 Hours Podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:05] Michaela: your host, Michaela Anne. And since this show is still not even a year old thank you so much for listening. If you're a brand new listener, if you are coming back thank you for coming
[00:00:15] Aaron: back.
yeah, if you are a new listener to the show, we hope you enjoy it. if you're returning, we just have one simple ask for you.
You heard about this show somehow, maybe it was on Instagram or Twitter or word of mouth. And however you heard about the show, if you would just pass that forward and share it so that we can share these ideas. With other people and grow our community. And the larger our community, the more guests we can get and the more ideas we can share back with you guys.
So if you could take a second, just pay it forward. We'd really appreciate that. Yeah, and
[00:00:42] Michaela: we are not your typical music podcast. We're not promoting records. We're not talking to artists about their latest tour or project that they're trying to get publicity for.
We are talking to artists in the off cycle times. We are trying to focus on the behind the scenes tools and routines they've found helpful along the way to stay inspired, creative, and sane while building a career around their art.
[00:01:06] Aaron: And a lot of us know there is so much in this industry that is outside of our control. And so we wanted to focus on what is within our control. And with that in mind, we decided to invite some of our favorite artists and some of our friends on to have a conversation about the other times outside of the public eye.
And ask them the question, What do you do to create sustainability in your life so that you can sustain your creativity? talking about unsustainable, we, this is our first show back from weeks of traveling with a toddler, which included three weeks of. So, We in Europe. It included two festivals, two festivals, one in Virginia, and one in Wisconsin.
All without coming home in between and if you've been watching our shows on YouTube, you've noticed that we've been in various locations, taping these and we're happy to report that we are back here in Nashville in the comfort of our studio. Yeah,
[00:01:56] Michaela: we definitely are people that like to be on the move and continuing that life with a toddler.
We are very lucky that we have a toddler that seems amenable to travel, but there is nothing like your own home, your own bed, and It's just the routine of being at home. So we're thankful to be back and so excited to get to talk to people even more on this podcast. Our guest today is a new friend of ours.
We did not know each other before this. Duquette Johnston is currently from Birmingham, Alabama, has had a long. career starting in the 90s has been on major labels on merge records. He's toured all over the world with bands like the Foo Fighters. And a bunch of bands that I personally don't know, but
[00:02:42] Aaron: Yeah, my buddy Valentine.
Oh, yeah. Okay. I've heard of them. He also spent a period of time incarcerated in Alabama for a extremely minor drug charge, which he claims helped launch his solo career. He has a long and complex history. There is a great little mini documentary out about his story, and about his incarceration and about the music that he's made.
On YouTube you can find that link in the show notes, to this show if you want some more info, but, for our listeners here it was just a really... great far reaching conversation. Duquette's wife is also an artist. She is a painter. And so, talking about family and sustainability like we just were that's in this conversation.
We also talk about human design, which is, essentially designing your life. Which obviously, if you've heard this show, we love to talk about stuff like that. And for the first time ever, 30 episodes in, you get to hear about Michaela's obsession with essential oils. We made it. We held out for over half a year and it's made the episode, and it's a really important thing.
My dad was a contractor and carpenter and so I grew up on job sites and smelling the smell of, cut lumber. And to this day, As soon as I smell that, I'm like, Oh, there's my dad. There it is.
[00:03:56] Michaela: Our senses have deep attachment to our emotional makeup and our memory. Anyway, so it was exciting right out of the gate.
Duquette is a team aromatherapy, so we love that. But there's lots of really great deep wisdom that comes from a life of challenge and adversity. While staying committed to one that is creative, to process all that is being a human, my favorite type of conversation.
[00:04:24] Aaron: Duquette seems to really just be grounded in being a forever student.
Yeah, he's really clear that he's like always learning and figuring things out and I love that and that's something that I aspire to daily. You'll hear us talk a few times about Club Duquette in there. I'm not sure if we actually explain what that is. That's a shop that he owns with his wife in Birmingham.
And again, there's a link to that in the show notes if you'd like to check it out. With that, here's our conversation with Duquette Johnston.
[00:04:49] Duquette: I'm super nerdy about fragrance and the importance of using fragrance for setting mood and intention in everything you do. It's a big part of my life.
[00:04:59] Michaela: Oh, I love that. Are you into essential oils?
[00:05:02] Duquette: I, yes, I'm usually covered in some sort of different essential oil. Either a blend I've put together, or friends that make oil blends, and, Yeah, I just prefer natural. I've tried some like, I've smelled some perfumes that are really amazing. And I think I want to wear them, and then...
This just doesn't last very long. I go back to just grabbing some oil and putting it on.
[00:05:25] Michaela: Well, It's so interesting because it changes how it smells on your body. You know, If you smell it on somebody else and you're like, Oh, I like that. And then it's on your body. It's different.
[00:05:33] Duquette: Absolutely. When everybody's pH affects the oil, it's going to react on you differently. Because your pH is different than somebody else's, it's going to change.
[00:05:43] Michaela: one more question about essential oils. Do you have a favorite company?
[00:05:46] Duquette: No, I think it depends on what you're looking for. I love it. This is how we're starting the conversation. This, This is right up my alley. I love it.
[00:05:56] Michaela: We haven't talked about Aromatherapy and oils yet and like our house is I have a lot of essential oils. So it's just it's a thing
[00:06:04] Duquette: the thing that's tricky for me on the essential oils is, A lot of the companies making them are all MLMs, but there's some blends like, that I love from some of those companies. There's one oil blend called Magnify Your Purpose, from
[00:06:19] Michaela: We
[00:06:19] Aaron: have it.
[00:06:19] Duquette: You do. Okay. You know what I'm talking about. I keep that in my pocket at all times.
That is with me everywhere I go when I'm on stage. Like, you know, Reed Watson. Reed's not a, I mean, he's a little bit of a hippie, but not as much as me. But I will literally hand that oil out to the band and be like, who wants some spirit oil before we play? And everybody's like dousing themselves. did a show in Birmingham one time years ago. After I put out a record in 2013, I played at this theater here with a 16 piece orchestra I think every musician in the band was from Nashville except for one. And I put diffusers, I had three sections, so it was like an arc, and I had a diffuser behind every section pumping holy oils into the air for the performance Because a it was a test and B.
I thought it would help elevate Everybody's connection to the music, but I also wanted to see if the audience noticed and how they connected to There being a certain fragrance and did it enhance the experience of listening to the music?
[00:07:19] Aaron: What was the verdict?
[00:07:21] Duquette: Yeah, everybody kept asking afterwards what was going on?
There was this incredible smell while y'all were playing, this fragrance. So, I mean, The band always loved it. I'd never had anyone get super turned off by the Palo Santo or oils. I've had, when I made my last record, the drummer Steve Shelley from Sonic Youth had never smelled Palo Santo in his life.
And then before every take, he would be like, can you light the Palo Santo up? So, it just became the thing.
[00:07:45] Aaron: Yeah, I remember distinctly when I smelled it the first time. I was like, it was in a studio and I was like, what is that? It smells so good and I was hooked. I actually was playing a show in Brooklyn with this artist. This would have been about 5 years ago now. some of her old friends were opening and they were a great like kind of pop duo that were opening but they own like a boutique perfume company in Brooklyn, and so their thing since they only played like four shows a year is they would make a scent
[00:08:12] Duquette: just for the show.
[00:08:13] Aaron: Just for the show and sell it as like merch and I still have it and it's a really great smell But that was their thing like, so four times here.
They'd have just a super small batch scent
[00:08:22] Duquette: I love this idea.
[00:08:24] Aaron: I think Kiko man was their name And if they somehow find this and I'm wrong, please set me straight. But I'm going to try, we'll try to link to that. But it was, it was a really cool concept.
[00:08:33] Michaela: It's interesting to me because I feel like every good thing like it can become extreme like the companies that are like pyramid schemes and whatever but like Young Living But I love their products but now I feel like essential oils is there's such like a gag around it of Oh god, you like essential oils, but I'm like it makes so much scent that sense that scent has an impact on us.
So I don't understand why this is so hokey to some people. Like peppermint oil gets rid of headaches for me. it sets so many moods and emotions. And anyways, we don't, we can do a whole special on essential oils.
[00:09:07] Aaron: We're in my studio and there's a vocal booth right next to us.
And I have peppermint in there. Cause like Nashville is notoriously a soup bowl for allergies. And
[00:09:15] Duquette: It's the worst, one of the worst allergy episodes I've ever had in my life was in Nashville. I mean, Awful.
[00:09:21] Michaela: Yeah, I like have months where I just can't record vocals in Nashville. The first year we moved here, I recorded a record and I recorded vocals in the spring. I just saw Dan Nobler as a producer and he produced it and he just the other day was like, Remember how we had to redo your entire record and do your vocals every single song like a second time?
Because I was like, that doesn't sound like my voice. What's happened to it? And I later figured out. Oh, it's Nashville. Right. That was like
[00:09:48] Aaron: your first record you had
[00:09:49] Michaela: made here. Yeah. I'd never recorded in Nashville before and it the allergies mess it up. Anyways,
[00:09:55] Aaron: I have peppermint in my vocal booth just because it's so great at like cutting through all that
[00:09:59] Duquette: It's been a part of my life for a long time. Certain scents, or I'll smell something in the air, transforms, just like what music does, a fragrance will remind me of an experience in my life. Like my childhood I spent. Every summer, after my parents divorce, I spent every summer in Wyoming in the Bighorn Mountains, where my father lived.
And the smell of fresh sage, like rain about like, just right when it's starting to hit the sage, or lavender I literally have flashbacks. The same with music. I can hear a song, and it goes back to a certain time period, and I equate... Sent with memory and feeling and emotion and my wife and I are really into human design and using human design to see I'm still learning, I don't know as much as her at all, but I know that on my profile chart about like how I best function, one of the top things is scent for me.
And I just learned that like a few months ago, I'd never, I just always knew I loved scents and fragrances.
[00:10:57] Michaela: Yeah, that's incredible because I, we talked about yesterday we were walking and Aaron said, Whoa, we were on a walk with our daughter and was, he said, Whoa, the smell of that with that tree over there, like just immediately reminded me of. Hasifi in Brazil where he had lived for a time and it was
[00:11:14] Aaron: just yeah this neighbor came by on like his kind of janky four wheeler And so it was like that smell of like burning oil burning gas and then like some cut grass and all this it just smelled like the city I was in Brazil and just brought me right back there
[00:11:28] Duquette: in honor of talking to y'all today, I busted out my I Love Tennessee
[00:11:32] Aaron: Nice. Oh, amazing.
[00:11:34] Duquette: I was trying to choose a mug for some hot tea before this, I was like, I'll go with Dolly.
[00:11:38] Aaron: That's perfect.
[00:11:38] Michaela: Officially, I know we jumped right in. Thank you for being our guest. And we, we do not, we don't know each other.
[00:11:44] Duquette: Not at all.
[00:11:46] Michaela: Never met. We do have mutual friends, a lot of mutual friends. I stopped through in Birmingham on tour last spring and was with Kristen Weber who's
[00:11:54] Duquette: I'm so bummed I missed y'all.
[00:11:56] Michaela: I know. So we, I didn't get to stop in the store because I actually had to run to a coffee shop and I was there. Taking a writing class at the time but she was in the store. So I've seen the outside of your store. you know, we've done our kind of like internet sleuthing to, to learn a little bit about you beforehand.
but we'd love to kind of just start with, what's your story? A little bit
[00:12:14] Duquette: How much time do we
[00:12:15] Michaela: yeah,
have on our show notes. relevant background lives in Birmingham. Went to jail.
[00:12:22] Duquette: ha ha ha Ha! There's my legacy, that's all
[00:12:26] Michaela: There's a lot more on there, but that's just, we literally looked at that and we were like, cool notes,
[00:12:31] Aaron: Michaela.
[00:12:32] Duquette: That's, I do live in Birmingham and I have been incarcerated that's pretty spot on, and that kind of, that incarceration honestly launched my, solo career. I'd made several records. I had a band called Cut Grass because I love the smell of cut grass.
[00:12:46] Aaron: Oh, so this has been a, this has been like a core facet your music
[00:12:50] Duquette: Dude from the get go I think I like my very first band I was in we went through several name changes over years like i've been doing this since I was 18 Right out of high school dropped out of college. I was writing songs in high school and playing covers But they were mostly like Grateful Dead and Camper Van Beethoven and weird, obscure stuff.
Yeah.
But my very first band, like once we were called Volume, then we were called Shallow. And then there was another Shallow in Kansas. So we had to change our name. And we were picking names. And somehow the name Verbena got thrown in a hat. And there's been so many made up stories about where that name came from, because we used to do that on purpose.
We never gave the same answer twice in press interviews. But I loved it because I loved the smell of verbena. So I voted for verbena. And then while I was in verbena, I started this side project because I wasn't good at sitting around and I had all these musician friends here in town. And, I love the smell of cut grass.
So yeah, it has been part of my, deal, but God, what's my story.
[00:13:50] Aaron: I will preface this by saying that, you do have a mini documentary about, how you've gotten to the place that you're in, which is amazing. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. And I recommend that anybody hearing this could check that out. Cause not only is it an incredible story, but it's also like really, I think it's beautifully shot and beautifully put together.
[00:14:05] Duquette: Thank you. Yeah, my buddy Daniel Carl Fox did that came to be because I trusted Daniel and felt safe with him and comfortable with him and we had really bonded and connected. And he would just come and stay in my home with my family, he and his partner Mara. And they have some beautiful documentaries out and podcasts, and Reed Watson, who manages me and runs Single Lock, really has encouraged me to just open up and be do less turtling as I've done in the past and be more open. So here we are being open. But yeah, I've been a musician for, golly, I'm just turned 50. So for a long time, making a lot of records, not releasing a lot of records, touring the world.
Major labels, indie labels, lots of album cycles and non album cycles.
[00:14:49] Aaron: Yeah, Absolutely. So, know, you said that being incarcerated kind of launched your solo career in a way. how did that happen?
[00:14:58] Duquette: when I got locked up, I thought my life was over with and done. It took two years from the time of my arrest to actually be in the detention center because I thought it was all going to go away. I had an attorney that knew the judges, that knew this, all these things, and for a certain amount of money, I would never see the inside of the jail.
I would just have to pay all these fines and all this stuff, it's a lot.
[00:15:23] Aaron: this is in Alabama,
[00:15:25] Duquette: is in Alabama, these types of scenarios take place all over the country though, but this is in Etowah County, Alabama. And. I don't think I would have gotten arrested in a major city.
I had an empty baggie of cocaine and minor specks of marijuana on me. Did I need to get arrested? Probably so, to like, wake my butt up. But I do not agree with any of the drug laws in this country in any shape, form, or fashion. none of them are set up for... Improving one's life, changing someone, rehabbing them.
That's why recidivism is just such a massive problem from city jails to county jails to state and federal's different because once you get in there, you're toast. But once I was locked up, I assumed 10 years.
Holy
In a state penitentiary for a first time drug arrest, which is just insane. insane. Mhm.
terrifying. I mean, I weighed 115 pounds at the time. It was just a total mess. Had lost my way completely. Was depressed. Went from occasionally partying to... Once I was locked up, I was doing probably like five grams of cocaine a day every day.
Working two jobs, living in basements, studios, all sorts of stuff. But once I was incarcerated, I ended up getting a second chance. my cellmate recommended an attorney there. And he worked out a deal with the judge where he, in the district attorney, that said, like, look, let him go to this men's rehab facility, this men's home.
If he leaves, send him to prison. What do you got to lose? No big deal. They agreed. And you go through these seven week Programs about drug addiction and all this and everyone would told me that like I was not gonna be allowed to play guitar that I needed to quit music that I needed to give up that I needed to let it go that ship had sailed and I'm real stubborn if someone tells me I can't do something or not to do it I'm probably gonna try and do it anyways and there was a old the chaplain looked like Jerry Garcia at this place he's this old hippie dude that came out of the Jesus freak movement you And he loaned me a guitar and he was like, man, you better keep writing songs.
And so once it came time to get a job, my job. background was being a professional musician or being a chef. I have lots of other skills, but those were the two things that paid my bills and I had skill sets in and there's no job in Etowah County, Alabama to be a musician and you can't go work in restaurants because they serve alcohol.
even though like alcohol wasn't my, I didn't like alcohol. I never really drank, but they asked what I wanted to do. And I said, I wanted to write a new record and I wanted to write a book. So they created a job for me. And the job was to drive guys to work every day. And I would get paid by those guys because they were using an outside service, but they brought it in house, they had a van.
I was one of the few people with a valid driver's license. Because usually once you get arrested, that's gone. And I started writing songs every day. And those songs became my first solo record Etowah. And when I got my very first 24 hour leave, it was Christmas of 2005, I believe. I went straight to my friend's studio and I just started recording.
And every time I got a 24 hour pass, I would just go record. And it was in this guy's garage, my buddy Jody Nelson from A Band Through The Sparks. An amazing songwriter. And that's how, that's why I say that's what launched my solo career.
[00:18:35] Aaron: Yeah. Wow. That's incredible. I was thrown in a drunk tank for 18 hours when I was 18 years old. but I've always had this like really naive thought that like, if I were to be incarcerated for a long period of time, I would spend my time reading.
And maybe painting and writing music and all of that and it's, which I understand is like a pretty naive outside viewpoint of it, but it sounds like you were able to do that.
[00:18:58] Duquette: If I had stayed in the Etowah County Jail, that would not have happened. I was in a locked 8x8 room for 23 hours a day sometimes. At times, with four guys in one cell, sleeping in what they called boats, they were these canoes, and I slept my head was right by the freaking toilet. the conditions there, it's one of the worst county detention centers in the nation.
The way they treat people. They've been sued, all sorts of stuff. They use money for their own personal gain. The people that ran it. But there's different facilities. And I think a bigger facility has different options. There's the nonprofit jailhouse guitar that Wayne Kramer started from MC five.
And they go into jails and bring in guitars and work with songwriting for rehabilitation and healing and emotion and all this stuff. That's really fabulous. But a place like Ottawa County, when you're in the detention center, You're lucky if you get a Bible. You're lucky if you get a piece of paper.
You're lucky like, I don't even know if they give out Bibles or Korans or, whatever it may be, whatever your religion is you're not getting anything. But this place, Rafa, it was the place that I went to. there happened to be people that believed in me.
I don't know how it all worked out this way, man. Like, I had no say so over it. I had no control over it. It just, at one point they wanted me to take over running the rehab. And it was... The hardest thing, because I eventually became the resident advisor, so I was running it as the on site person while writing songs and helping with intake and talking to guys going through some of the worst things ever and, realizing that I was a spoiled brat.
Like my addiction came from boredom and thinking I needed to be a rock star. Because I didn't grow up with abusive parents, or addicted parents, or any of this other stuff. I grew up with a skewed vision of what you needed to do to make music and to write songs. That you needed to suffer, you needed to hurt, you needed to party, you needed to do this.
And that was just like, that's one of the greatest lies that's ever been pushed on creatives
100%. Yeah.
you know? I was just really fortunate that the universe... gave me this opportunity to do what I did and I got to write every single day and after nine months I finally was like, it's time to go.
can't stay. I had a friend that lived out in the Teton Mountains in Wyoming and he was like, look, I'm going to Get you a plane ticket. All you gotta do is pay for food. And this little indie label that's no longer around gave me 500 a month to live on for six
Wow.
And I flew out to Wyoming, and my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, was in Seattle. And she was finishing up work there, and she drove down and moved in with us. And she worked at Starbucks at the Albertsons in Jackson Hole, Wyoming every day. And I would... Either write at my friend's townhouse like I was out there finishing lyrics or I would drive up the song temptation I wrote on a mountainside Hill like that and was like I'm either gonna get eaten by a bear or the car is just gonna start rolling down the hill And I'm toast so I wrote this on temptation off the Etowah record super fast because I was afraid of dying
[00:21:57] Aaron: Wow. Wow. And then what did it look like from there?
[00:22:01] Duquette: there, it got to where I was like, alright, these songs Winter was coming. Not in the Game of Thrones sense, maybe a little bit, but Winter was coming and it was like, alright, what are we doing? Are we staying here? At the time, there was not really, to my knowledge, there wasn't a lot of recording studios out in Jackson all the time.
Since Kanye made a record out there, now there's a bunch of recording studios out in Teton County and over the hill in Idaho. We decided to drive back to Birmingham to my friend Jody's that I'd been recording with, and we drove, took several days, and, man, we lived off of, peanut butter and jelly while driving my wife's little Honda Accord.
[00:22:36] Aaron: Mm
[00:22:36] Duquette: I came back and I finished making the record and, put it out.
And That started all the solo stuff.
[00:22:42] Aaron: Yeah, you have perspective on how Your creativity changed you're writing prior to being incarcerated versus after that
[00:22:50] Duquette: Yeah, my writing changed in that I just decided to show up and write. Even through the hard times where it I didn't feel like writing, I quit waiting on inspiration and started creating to make inspiration happen. Before, I thought I had to be in a certain state of mind to write.
In the studio, I was constantly, not inebriated, because that's not the right word, but, the ritual of creation changed from, Yeah, I think it got way more spiritual for me. It always was, but my ego was through the roof, man.
But, like what came first, the ego or the drugs? I don't know who influenced who more, but they're a horrible combination. And so my creativity just changed into trying to show up no matter what. That's still a challenge to this day that doesn't go away, and it's different for every single writer for each of y'all is going to be different.
I'm going to be different and I think it takes a lot of self awareness to figure out exactly where you fit into that.
[00:23:45] Michaela: Do you feel like your idea of the outcome also shifted of before incarceration when you were like writing, you had this idea of wanting to be a rock star and you were writing songs for that lifestyle versus the other side of maybe shattering that hmm.
[00:24:02] Duquette: yeah, I think it still took a while to shatter that because I went from like. being a young kid that was on huge indie labels, in my early 20s, like, labels I looked up to, like, being on Merge Records for, like, my first album, and Satanta out of England, and the bands that I idolized were our fans.
My Bloody Valentine, Swerve Driver, Ride, like, all these British bands we admired were all at our shows in England, so... I think I still had this mentality I just wanted to do this. I thought that even early on, like I needed this industry help. I needed this. I needed that. And when I started doing my four track acoustic records, I let that all go and was like, man like, why do I write songs?
was writing when I was little. When I was three years old, I wanted to be a musician. I wanted to be a songwriter. When I was seven and I saw the freaking Bee Gees, I really wanted to be a performer, watching them was like... My mom took us to the Bee Gees when she moved to Birmingham, Alabama because she had no child care.
She took all of her kids and I was just floored. Watching that. And I'm not sure if I ever created specifically for an industry thing, but I created for what I thought a rock star needed to be. And that brought me nowhere. And instead, I was like, I just want to make records.
I need to make records. If I don't make records, I am not a happy person. you have to be able to be happy whether you're making records or not. But I think the outcome of what the record does now, I want to just write, record, release. even learning since last year, like going through an album cycle and being really frustrated with certain people in the industry saying, wait, hold on to this, do this.
I was just... It's not good for me. I don't like it. I don't want to subscribe to album cycles. I want to just create. And what happens is going to happen. And if people want to be on board and support and elevate it, cool. But I'm going to keep writing and recording and releasing. If it's on single lock or it's through myself whatever it may be.
But it definitely shifted.
Yeah.
And people I was around, reconnecting to like true music fans really helps shift that too. There's a guy named Corey Flagle, who used to run a golf tour. It's a really random story here. Used to run a golf tour, but would tour with musicians. Go on the road with his band Glossary and others.
And he put me on this house show tour. And there's all these hardcore music fans that were called the Post Carters from Hell that started off supporting Uncle Tupelo in the early days. And all these people are still like, they still know each other. I mean, it's been going on for, you know, two decades now.
And once I started meeting those people, I remember writing Jeff Colvin I don't know if you know the Colvins in Nashville, Jeff and Shelly Colvin.
[00:26:36] Michaela: Yeah. Jeff's my lawyer.
[00:26:38] Duquette: Okay, sweet. Okay, so Jeff and I have known each other since first grade. We were in first grade together.
[00:26:43] Aaron: Oh, wow.
[00:26:44] Duquette: Yeah. And I wrote Jeff and I was like, quit sending my record around.
I don't care. like, cause it was weird. I made this one four track record that we're issuing later this year. And I had an a label guy was like, man, I love this. But, it's like the recording's not great. He loved all the songs, and Jeff Alexey just put it out. What's the problem?
And I remember being so frustrated for a moment, thinking like, Why does he care if it's a lo fi record? this record cost me the price of a cassette. This is great, no one had to spend a ton of money making this album. And I just told Jeff to stop, and then from there I just moved on.
Mhm.
gonna... Knock on wood, keep making records no matter what.
[00:27:22] Aaron: Yeah, that's, that's the seed of it for all of us, I think. And it's really easy to dig into it. that purity be tainted, because there's so much, that's there. That's like, no, you need to approach it this way. You need to strive for this and you need to strive for that.
And I come from being a sideman drums or my first instrument. And so I spent years on the road with tons of bands and, realized that I was spending most of my time. Either learning other people's music or just playing other people's music and. Most of my time sitting in a van flying down the highway and what I really wanted to do was to create and so for the last nine years or so I've just been really doing everything I can to spend more time in a studio and you know Now I basically don't tour at all and get to spend my days creating because that's what fills me up,
[00:28:07] Duquette: That's a beautiful thing man. That's amazing you get to do that. Yeah.
[00:28:11] Michaela: I think there's something that happens for a lot of us like at a certain point when you've been in this enough that you do slowly, hopefully, become more detached from the outcome.
Because I think when you're like, starting young, play music because you're, you Learn the magic of music and then you get older and you're like, oh, okay I want to build a career of this and then you're attached to the result and the outcome and that can Change your relationship to music as you're trying to build a career Because you want to survive financially you want to have your livelihood all those things But then also you want to be validated you want to be assured that you're good at this that you want to be a part of a community And I think I see a lot of people and for us Slowly loosening the grip on that and being like, Oh, because it's so out of our control.
And in today's music industry, I was thinking about this today. I started working at a record label at Nonesuch Records in college in like 2009. And even from that time, learning behind the scenes, how much the music industry was changing for them. And then going on and having my own. Indie, record making career in the last 10 years.
I'm like, it has changed so dramatically what we're supposed to do to be successful or build a successful career literally changes every year. at first it was like, don't listen on Spotify people. Please just keep buying records. Now it's wait, wait, buy records, but also listen on Spotify and Spotify.
Please put me on a, playlist. and Snapchat. Oh, that was where you had to be. And now Snapchat doesn't exist. Now it's TikTok. I think more and more, especially now having a child, I'm just like, to build a successful career, you do have to do things that you don't love doing.
literally last night I opened TikTok for the first time and I was like, what is this? Aaron was like, you do this. And he showed me and I was like. Yeah, not for me. And I put it down. I'm like, I like Instagram. I'll just stay on there. But I'm like, I have this one life.
I don't want to spend it doing that. that sucks. And then just being Accepting of what that means and that might mean that you don't become the big rock star that you dreamed you would be and get to play the shows or have all the fans, but maybe you start to learn that there's other meaning, maybe even deeper meaning for you just getting to do the work of creativity and maybe, hearing from one person how it impacted their life rather than them Thousands of people because you think that's what the key is.
I feel like that's a lot of the journey for a lot of us, of just realizing that dreams shift and change and maybe come true but look different than we thought, and really like continually getting back to why we do this in the first place and trying to have a healthy ego about it.
[00:31:00] Duquette: Healthy egos are a great way to
[00:31:02] Michaela: It's
[00:31:02] Duquette: hard.
It's really hard because you were told the industry is always going to have something new for you to do. Once technology got involved in the music business, the music business has been capitalist driven for decades and decades and decades.
RCA start a record label because they loved putting out records. RCA started a record label because they wanted to sell Victrolas,
. That's capitalism. And I am not anti money because this world operates on money. The more money I have, the more I can give away. The more good I feel like I can do.
I am not opposed to money coming to me, and right now I could really use some. So I'm not gonna like knock money. But, yeah, there's part of me that, of course, all of us are like yeah, yeah, I wish like, my music career, I would love to be big enough to be on this certain level stage and have certain financial success, but I think some healthy detachment from outcomes is good across anything I think maybe you choose to do.
Are you going to be happy? And can you find happiness and joy and peace without that existing? Is it just about creativity? And some people, it may not be. They just want to freaking be a rock star. Cool, go for it. I would love way more financial success. I would love more syncs to be coming in.
I would love for all these things, but at the end of the day, I just want to make music. I just want to connect to people. And I love it when just, if one person writes me back, like you said, like there's something powerful about getting an email. Like I started sending out regular newsletters after not doing it for several years.
And when you get a response from one person that's impacted by a song or a lyric, man, the way that elevates like, it's it's so cool and you have this connection and, that is very expansive, I think, for everybody. So a delicate thing to walk, and Success in music can mean many different things.
It just depends on how you set up the guidance. I mean, I have a friend here in town that's toured in tons of bands, but he makes music every day. He plays bars every night, and he loves it. I don't want to be in a bar playing every night. I have no desire to be in a bar. But for me, if I get to write and record, if I get to do some small tours here and there, I'm always open to anything that happens.
I also, want to have my family there, and I want to be with my family. I have a 25 year old daughter that lives in Nashville. And when she was born, I was on tour with the Foo Fighters. I barely got home an hour before she was born. I almost missed her, my first kid's birth. I turned down tours in Europe.
I had labels that were like, you'll never tour Europe again if you turn down this tour. And I was like, my daughter gets born once.
Yeah.
I don't think this will keep happening. This one child is unique. I need to be there. And fortunately, girl came along and, took us on tour in America and I didn't have to go to Europe.
And the label let me fly back and forth to shows and the last show happened to be in Charlotte. This is before cell phones. I had a pager and it went off 9 1 1 at 4 in the morning. I was banging on the hotel room doors of friends that drove up for the show. We had just finished the tour and I borrowed a car and hauled it back home.
But, it changes as you, grow and learn and nowadays, there's always a distraction. Trying to loop back around to the tech part. I remember as technology started getting involved, I had a mentor, back in the early 90s and I would just hang out at his studio.
We would meet every day for breakfast. I would plug in cables and roll his joints. That was my job. And this guy wrote like the biggest hit song of 1994. And he recorded it in an apartment in Birmingham, Alabama. This is in the 90s. It was like way, dude, it was way ahead of his time. But he talked about technology a lot and how it was going to change the industry.
And he was friends with Zappa and all these other people. And like the things he would say, I was like, dude, you're crazy. This is not going to happen. Fast forward, there is always something that the industry people will tell you to do that's kind of a distraction. From what you should be doing, and yes, you have to promote and all these things, but you're constantly worried about that, it's going to drain you mentally, it's going to drain you spiritually, it's going to drain you physically, because I think all those things are interconnected, so you have to know what's good, what's balanced, can I step away?
Right.
I stepped away after my son was born, my wife got really sick and almost died. And she was in the hospital, and I won this MTV video contest thing. And I remember posting on Instagram like, Okay, I should be promoting this, but I'm out.
Mmhmm.
not going to be online for I don't know how long. And, yeah, I'm sure it hurt stuff, but I did not care.
what was the priority there? And I had a conversation last year with a really. Powerful industry person. I don't know if I should put that in air quotes or
Mmhmm.
like, He's a very old friend, and I was trying to get him to come, he's a booking agent, I was trying to get him to come to my show at South by Southwest. He's like, man I'm swamped. Why don't you meet me here and we'll just talk. And we did. And he like really liked the record and he was complaining to me about how he's being sent all these like viral artists to go see, but none of them have catalogs none of them know how to necessarily tour. None of them liked all these things. And I was like, okay, I've got a lot of records. I know how to tour. I've been through all my rowdy phases start booking me? Let's do this. Like why not take a chance and then his response was like uh, well like tick tock. You don't have many followers and your streams aren't this and I was like, man What do you want and then literally like what within the last two weeks?
there's articles talking about label executives complaining about lack of talent and development and it's just obnoxious. So I tend to stick with folks like Reed Watson and people that truly believe in music. I think the problem with all this. A lot of the social media is there's not room for people to develop and grow You can't only work with viral artists. You can't only have just hit movies. Where's the room for mistakes to happen? Where's the room for like these raw human music. Connections to happen that then end up giving a longer career, I think most of the shows that streaming platforms want are the ones that were like the cult hits that today would be canceled on a network TV.
[00:37:05] Aaron: you're touching on something that like has been this really weird conundrum for me lately in the music industry because you see these major labels going after viral artists it's like lighting a match. It's going to be really bright and really quick and then it's going to be gone.
And then the other side of that, you have all these venture capital firms that are paying a half billion dollars for Bruce Springsteen's. Publishing catalog that wasn't built overnight. That's longevity. And by investing a half billion dollars in it, you're saying that you're going to make that and beyond going forward, that's longevity.
What are we doing today to support artists that are. Into longevity, nothing,
[00:37:40] Duquette: nothing. Yeah, they're literally like, I like, you're so, I mean,
[00:37:44] Michaela: mean, That's all the, the small music venues, like I will try not to go on a rant, but I'm kind of in a place of just the dominating cultural ideas in this world and in this country specifically.
Like, we, our ecosystem,
[00:38:00] Duquette: on.
[00:38:01] Michaela: our ecosystem of wanting to support, small venues because again, I don't think that like a viral artist, because they made one video on TikTok and one good song, like that's going to then develop them into a lifelong, career artist who can, sustain for that long.
And maybe they don't care about that, but I feel like the small venues where you can go play bar gigs and you can go try out new songs and you can learn how to keep an audience. And like, you can learn how to talk if you have to be huge numbers out of the gate, I don't know how people grow. I don't know how you grow your artistry, your work.
And I think it's really short sighted to think, well, that's what we need. If you're not somehow fully developed or a viral success from the beginning, then you don't have a chance. And, it sucks and I think, what you were talking about, priorities, missing opportunities.
this is why we have these conversations because everyone has to make these decisions for themselves of how to prioritize and we're in a place in our life where our priorities are shifting all the time and we're talking about that. There was a time where for me, going on tour and playing music and music opportunities was number one priority.
I would drop. Anything and everything to do that, I would miss friends weddings, I would miss things with Aaron because that was what I cared about because I accepted the story in order to have what it takes to make it, you have to be all in. I don't think I was that great of a whole person back then I don't think that was enjoyable for me and I don't think that was enjoyable for people in my life.
And. My life was not well rounded compared to now where we have a child, I have mother who had a stroke so we have, our priorities have shifted of like, I went from having parents who dropped everything to help me and support me in any way I wanted to now always having to go there and see how I can support them and I have 100% felt the impact of that on my career.
And I was telling a friend about this the other day. had a friend who's very ambitious and they asked me like, do you regret that? I was like, no, not at all. I would make those same decisions time and time again, because for me in the big picture, I'm very driven and competitive and want to achieve.
But at the end of the day, I've learned what the fuck for? If you're not gonna have
a full, rich life in your relationships and your community and your family, if I'm only about trying to achieve for myself, what for?
[00:40:31] Duquette: Yeah. I mean, It's real lonely if you don't have anybody to share it with.
especially, and this is where self awareness comes in, some families are willing to sacrifice and that's their journey and that's their thing. But I think, you would regret if you weren't there to help your parents, or your mother, would get to a point, especially if you're close with them, even if you're not close with them, because I just went through this in my life with my wife and her mother just passed away one month ago,
[00:40:56] Aaron: hmm.
[00:40:56] Duquette: uh, in two days, thank you. And we had not been super close with her, it was off and on.
we found out that she had dementia like, far too late. we had to have the state involved. It was all this heavy stuff, but it affected everything we did over the last year.
And this summer, I thought I was going to do all these different things and more shows.
And, once she got worse, it was, no, this is it. Club Duquette, even it suffered, but it was like I'm helping my, with my son so my wife can go sit with her mom who's dying. There's this short sightedness of, These people that it's all about the bottom dollar, and I understand you have to have money to pay bills and all these other things, but you can build longer careers and more longevity if you slowly build and support artists.
But what are you willing to sacrifice to do that? There's times where it's not worth the sacrifice I did that when I was younger.
Like I really did. I miss so much of my daughter's life when she was little from touring. I got home, she was born, I was there for two weeks, and then boom, out the door to Europe, Tour of the Foo Fighters.
Came home for less than 12 hours, on the road with the Jesus Lizard. And back, like, it was just like, da da da da da da da, constant. And then in my mental state of, oh, this is what I do to be a rock star, I ended up not seeing her for three years of her life from the age of five to eight. I never saw her.
I got to speak to my daughter. I was so focused on music and being a rock star and doing this that got cut out. Now it's like she and I are super tight, but I was like, I will never Do that again and everyone seems to only think about the right now and how much can we make right now and how can we blow this up just right now versus The greatest art in the world did not happen overnight, whether it's a sculpture or a painting or a composer.
They spent years and years, they built it up, they lived life experiences that feed into the music they create. know, In all the talk of AI now and all this other stuff, there is no soul, and I'm sure some strange person will come at me about like, how dare you say technology can't have a soul.
I don't know because I'm not, as far as I know, I am not. Technology. I am human. I am a spiritual being in a human body, and there is experience and lived experiences you have that feed into your creativity and your expression. And then that builds connection through people you have connection through art And it's all subjective of what's beautiful to you, but it builds bonds and connection and energy that flows between people. And that is what I think can build longevity and give life to careers,
[00:43:33] Aaron: yeah, that's so beautifully said. That's, a realization that we have come to as well. There are multiple roads to get to the same goal and, I think it takes a lot of experience. It takes a lot of presence and wisdom and patience to really define what the core of your goal is.
And I'm going to speak for both of us, so I'll apologize in advance if I stray off. I'll correct you if, if. Please, please do. You know, but like the goal of putting out music is exactly what you're saying. It's is this connection a group of people like fostering this connection.
having a human experience be seen and acknowledged and tying that back to like this idea of being a rock star. Like I wanted that too. I want to play arenas. Seeing pictures of like two in Europe, playing outside to 500 thousand people comes to mind.
It's just a sea of people. That is a very entry level. Depiction of human connection, you're just seeing, a ton of people you're like, oh, wow. They're feeling this. There's the connection. Obviously look at this, you've played shows like that.
It doesn't totally feel that way on stage. What feels great to me is playing someplace like the basement here in Nashville, where, you know, I think it tops out 150 people, but you feel it and you're there or playing a house show. You know, and there's like 30 people like maybe a house or is maybe the most like anti rockstar thing you can do but like I've come to love them because that connection is there yeah, that connection is there and that energy is there that exchange of Interaction emotion connection energy is there and tangible and the impact is there and it's like no, this is the goal
[00:45:03] Michaela: It's funny too when like your ideas I have to remind myself all the time, there was a point in my twenties before I like really started touring that I was like, man, my dream life would just be able to like, go on tour and play small shows where there's like you know, a really solid fan base of people who love my songs and teach lessons when I'm at home and teach music and own my own house.
And I was like, that's the dream. I have that exact life now. Exactly what I dreamed up, but somewhere along the way, I was like, Oh my God, I don't want to be playing, house concerts for the rest of my life and playing small shows and I got to be in theaters. And then I like got over that hill and I was like, wait.
That again is pretty sweet. I should be so lucky to get to like, if I only play house concerts for the rest of my life, that's really okay. Because I want to play songs, I want to share songs and I want them to be received what does it matter what room it's in?
[00:45:58] Duquette: there's many different roads, and it's all dependent on how you like, define success, and, hell, doing house shows, the few house show tours I've done, I've actually made the most money put me
[00:46:08] Aaron: the truth.
[00:46:08] Duquette: in a house, put me back at house shows
like,
[00:46:10] Aaron: Yeah. Our friend, Mary Bragg, who's a great songwriter here and she's been on this show. She said to me years ago, It only takes a thousand fans worldwide that are really dedicated, that'll spend a hundred dollars on you in a year, and you're making six figures.
[00:46:24] Duquette: Yes Reid and I talk about that. I'm like, because of Club Duquette, our family shop and we like design all these graphic tees and bandanas and I used to like, make it so that all my merch was just through Club Duquette. Now for legal reasons, I've have it separated, but I was like, okay, like. man, if I just got a thousand fans, if I did three shirt drops a year and they all bought it, I'm good. I am living a great life. we always designed our life so that we could create art. We bought the house where we live. Because it was cheap. It was not the safest neighborhood, but it was cheap and affordable and we could make art.
We've tried to intentionally design our life so that we can live a very creative life and it's full of challenges and ups and downs. And, when I, First started in the music industry. There wasn't this tech side of stuff that you weren't on social media ever There wasn't a social media and like we had the mindset of like Jimmy Hendrix wouldn't have done MTV Cribs?
Why is anybody sharing all that like, where's the mystery and rock and roll and where's this and that and the other and to do press interviews? I would have to use an AT& T phone card to call in from the road is and then to go from that some of the Foo Fighters shows were massive crowds especially in Europe, but to go from that to where like now I've watched it just go through so many different, moments.
That's not the right way to do it, but like, it's just insane how the idea shifted. Like I, and I wonder like it labels. I know some great label people. I really do. I know some great A& R people, radio people. I wonder if some of the younger people have the skillset to develop artists.
Do some of the younger A& R people, or are they just in it from man, I'm looking for that hit, I'm looking for this. was talking to, it may have been, I keep dropping Reed's name, but it's one of my closest friends and my manager, but we're talking about Post Malone. Okay, and he's like, yeah, but Well, he have longevity, and I was like, man, he's a huge star, but you know why I think he will have longevity?
It's because you watch a guy like that, and he is all about the connection. I don't know why I have this fascination with Post Malone, but like, to see him get down and hug people, and talk to people, and do things so stripped down and raw, and be completely fearless about it, I think is where that human connection happens.
Because you... can see a little bit of yourself in those moments, I think everyone's looking for connection, everyone, and technology at times just drives further and further disconnection away, so these moments in a small house show or small venue, the connection you could build at a place like The Basement with
150 people, one of my favorite shows I've ever played was in The Basement,
In 2013. And I did it with a crammed in nine piece band on that stage.
Wow.
I had the string quartet and my full band. And man, it was just this powerful, beautiful moment between the audience in this whole band and this small little intimate room.
Like, I think there's something very magical about all of that.
Yeah.
[00:49:16] Michaela: before we say goodbye, can you speak a little bit about, you know, you talked about human design and designing your life to, be able to be creative and your partner is an artist as well. Can you talk about the inner workings of that, of having a partner who's also an artist?
And raising a child together and some of the kind of negotiation that happens of how to prioritize each of your creative spaces and how you example that for your child.
[00:49:44] Duquette: We're still learning. There's a lot of, there's a lot of grace. There's a lot of apologies, a lot of hugs, a lot of like, I'm sorry I said that. I did not mean that. I'm just in my feelings. you know, A big thing, when we started Club Duquette, right? My wife was just starting to like, paint again. She didn't paint for a long time until our son was born, and then she started painting again. But we had done creative consulting together. Like, people came to us for ideas, and whether it was a website look, photography, we were involved in all these different creative industries. And thing we Duquette is that, She's taken a huge step back because when the pandemic happened, her art career really started just going in this upward trajectory, all because of Instagram.
Just sharing, she just openly shares, and it's a really beautiful, amazing, inspiring thing, the way she walks through life and is very vulnerable with everyone. And we realized first of all better balance in Club that we would rather be married to each other than run a business together, that we both need our individual autonomy, and I honestly still struggle with this at times, but that You each have to be your own fully whole individual.
Otherwise, I think it causes more harm in a marriage. It's challenging and tricky for individuals and I think it takes great communication and saying I need to be doing this right now. like right now, I know she's got these commissions that she's put on pause because she was taking care of her mother. And so... now that it's been a month, she's getting back to work and painting and I'm like, okay, look, I'll take this, I'll do this, I'll do that because you need to be painting, right now I'm just in a phase of writing, like I don't have any, Crazy deadlines.
So I think it takes really communicating. It takes a lot checking yourself and listening to your spouse and them listening to you. It's just and we show it to our kid by like we've have butted heads or like our egos have been bruised is How do we treat each other coming out of that?
Do we do it with love? Do we show him like, say sorry to each other? That we love each other through... Hard times of like, it's not easy and for some couples. They may just walk the journey easy breezy and flow through it, but
[00:51:57] Michaela: I don't think that exists.
[00:51:58] Duquette: I don't either but people won't admit it. You know what I mean? Like I think people put on a front That's why I'm like just trying to openly share it and talk about it Because it's not easy. You know what I mean? And Some of it, to make it work, is like, for a long time, my wife would be up painting at four in the morning, five in the morning, she would get up and just go paint.
And then there's times where I'm up super early, I may not be necessarily writing, but I'm just free writing. I had a mentor in high school that got me into stream of conscious writing, and that helped with shift how I write lyrics. I was only a teenager, and this guy had me fill notebooks every week of just... Gibberish, you're writing whatever. there's times where, like today, I was up at 420. I went in, walked in my yard, and... Ate granola and blueberries, because I love that, and then did some writing and started on a newsletter, but then after I'm done with this, I'll be, later this afternoon, I'll be focused on being a dad, and it's always a tricky balance, I think that, forgot who said this one time, they were like, everything gets priority, the priorities are always moving, there's times where maybe it's, You do have a record coming out and there's more requirements of promoting it.
So that's going to get a little more attention than there's other seasons where no, I'm just focused on family. And the trick is that you're told by the industry, you need to be constantly posting and promoting and sharing versus there's more to life than that. and everyone has that. So I think the more we can learn to, and some people don't want to share and you don't have to share, But for us, I think we're still learning it every day.
We're learning it right now. I mean it's crazy coming out of the last year we had with my mother in law and other relatives that are going through some really hard times right now. And I was in a car wreck in March and really messed up
Oh, man. I'm
talk for a couple of months and I've been in physical therapy ever since, but hey, I'm alive.
I'm cool. It's all good. But you know, July, I was in bed for like two and a half weeks because I couldn't move my back just killed me. But you still just. Show up and show compassion for each other and love each other and, push through. But I think like communication is key. I'm literally learning every day we've been together 22 years, wife and I
And have a nine and a half year old son.
Yeah.
we've been through a lot together. We've been through lots of stuff. And we do a lot of things together still. We totally do. I mean, she's doing an art. activation in New York in October and I'm DJing the event. So, Yeah, I hope so. I hope I do a good job
[00:54:27] Aaron: Yeah. we do a lot of that now. Touring for Michaela now, about 50% of the time, 60% of the time, I still go, but I'm just on dad duty. I do all the fun parts. I get up early, I do the driving. I load in and then I go to the hotel at like 630,
[00:54:42] Duquette: Yeah.
[00:54:43] Aaron: I, I bring like a mixed rig and I have a travel rig to work on my stuff, but you know, it's that give or take.
And then like, when we're home, there's sometimes that I have sessions in here and that I can't, cover my dad duty, my parent duties. And so Michaela covers that. And, you know, I will say like, we've been together for 16 years now. And I think like both of us have only ever really learned and grown when we've really fucked it up.
Yeah You know what? It's oh I fucked that up. How do I grow? How do I not do that again? we operate best for ourselves and as a couple of creatives when we are able to honor each other as like kind of two trees growing in the same pot. We're individual but like our roots are in the same thing.
So, if we can water those roots and tend to those roots, we'll both grow independently and together and it's just like this sounds like I know a lot and I'm really good at it and I'm not. I have to remind myself of this every day.
[00:55:35] Duquette: let's say that is such great advice though, because we're literally walking through that right now. And that's where human design has honestly helped because, I can't always give it to my wife. I'm trying to do better and better, I get re energized being around people.
That is my human design. she needs silence and alone time. And once I learned that that's how she recharges, I've had a better understanding. I've still not been the best at always giving that. Because my son and I are all like, Whaaaaa! Whaaaaa! Like, just kind of like, you know, we're loud. We, like, you know, I may meditate every day, but we are, my, my son and I are both pretty loud and wild, but understanding no matter how you figure it out, whether it's a tool like human design, because it's just a tool, right? It's just all these different modalities that give you a blueprint and there's lots of different ways to figure that out or just by talking and therapist or whatever.
If you can figure out what your spouse needs to best function, to be their best whole. Then it makes it easier and I think can reduce conflict. The problem is my ego gets up in the way and my ego has all these feelings.
bubble, it's
[00:56:41] Aaron: really hard to
[00:56:43] Duquette: my ego is but no, but like, what do you mean you don't want to be here right now?
Why do you want to have a separate art studio? Why do you like, why can't we just all be in the same building together all the time? Like I've literally, that is what I've said recently. But it may not be what she needs we're still together. We're still a couple and you like for y'all I like I love that reference of like you're in this pot together your family like is this pot right full of soil and earth and out of it like your child needs to be its own whole individual.
McKayla does, Erin does. And I saw this woman from South Africa, last year called, that does n e t Therapy, neuro Emotional Technique. And I was talking to her about my son and even my daughter and some worries and fears and she was like, look, please don't be offended, but his journey is his fucking journey And it's none of your business.
you can guide him But he's needs to have his journey and he will experience all these things you have no control over You have to let them be. and it's crazy walking the balance of like, I have a 25 year old going through this and figuring out who the hell she is she's just this amazing young woman, by the way But trying to give her advice, but let her just be her.
And like my son having his journey, he wants to get a haircut today that I don't like. I like, I think it's a ridiculous haircut, but I've had to this is silly that I'm even talking about this.
I mean. Know what? It's none of my damn business. If it makes him happy and he wants to have that haircut, then I
[00:58:07] Michaela: our year
[00:58:07] Duquette: out of the way.
[00:58:08] Michaela: I know, our two year old will not let me put her hair up. We get into a fight every time I want to put her hair up. It's full shag, just in Her hair is like a mess, and every day I'm like trying so hard, and Aaron's okay, just what does it matter if her hair is, and I'm just like, but it looks so, I don't, I can't, I'm just like, what does it matter?
[00:58:27] Duquette: It's my, and look, my son communicates really well most of the time, and I shared with him. I was like that haircut reminds me of these bullies I had. And he was like, dad, what's that have to do with me?
Yeah. What? Oh.
cause you had that experience. He was like, it's 2023, man.
And I'm like, damn, you were deep for a nine year old
[00:58:46] Michaela: The other thing that's so hard with partnership, I feel like, especially when you're together for a long time and you see each other through a lot of different phases is really remembering that you are separate people and then being accepting and respectful of the things about your partner that are different from you.
And something our therapist said to us recently that I found so helpful of, he was like, it's okay to grieve the things that your partner doesn't have that you wished that they had. And I was like, Whoa, I can? He's like, yeah, like your partner, will maybe never.
Clean the toilet the way that you wish they did, and you can spend your life being angry every time and trying to get them to change and like, become a person that will do this because that's what you want. Or you could just accept that that's not something that's about them, but you also are allowed to grieve and be like, Man, I'm sad that my partner doesn't have this thing that I always dreamed I would have in a partnership or whatever, but just that concept of like, okay, so I don't have to try to change him and I also don't have to feel guilty about the fact that I wish this was different, maybe letting
[00:59:51] Duquette: lot of ground.
[00:59:52] Michaela: yeah, that process of just grieving it could also lead to more acceptance of like, yep, cause there's so many things about me that I don't want to change.
Yeah. That drive him crazy.
[01:00:02] Duquette: Wow. I really needed to hear that. That is really good advice.
[01:00:08] Aaron: me, we started this conversation talking about the stereotypical rockstar and falling into that identity and how that changes your actions. There is this identity and this stereotype of Mr. Perfect or Mrs. Perfect. And you're going to find Mr. Perfect or Mrs.
Perfect and marry that person. And so for me, it's like really taboo to be like, this person is not that and that fucking sucks. But I still
[01:00:29] Michaela: love them and wanna spend my life with them. Yeah. .
[01:00:31] Aaron: You know what I mean? It's like pierce that image.
[01:00:33] Duquette: that's the humanality of it, though, right? That's being in this human form is, we are all flawed. In some way, form or fashion, there is no perfect anything and I think that's where the need for connection comes in. I think that's why sometimes like y'all doing this podcast and us having this kind of conversation.
Who knows what other creative couples have been afraid to discuss this, have been afraid to talk about it, have been afraid to, walk through those hardships and it ends up hurting them long term I mean, I really needed to hear this conversation because we're friends with a lot of creative couples, but most of them have jobby jobs, professional jobs, we've just always been crazy.
And done our own thing somehow we've, you know, from, making lots of money to not making money and almost losing our home and back and forth and all over. And yeah, I think that is some really great advice. It is okay to grieve those things, it's okay to grieve that. Things aren't the exact way you pictured them, but it doesn't change that you're a creative human.
And that I think we all have ways of being creative, but if you're a songwriter, since we're talking about music and we're songwriters and stuff like, there are so many different roads To write, release and record music and so many different roads to make you successful and don't let the industry like, try to shift your perspective on what that may be, app can go away, but people will still be there,
[01:01:59] Aaron: 100%. That's like such a beautiful bow to put on this whole conversation.
[01:02:04] Michaela: An app can go away, but people will still be there.
[01:02:07] Duquette: Yeah.
[01:02:07] Michaela: Hopefully.
[01:02:08] Duquette: an email list. Build your email. Let's talk marketing now. Build your email.
[01:02:15] Aaron: Thank you for taking time this morning to talk with us.
[01:02:19] Duquette: Thank y'all so much for having me. I, like, I literally, I saw, y'all sharing. I was like, oh, I gotta listen to this. And then I was like, wait a minute. I'd like, these are all people I know. Thank you for having me. It truly means a whole lot.
[01:02:30] Michaela: your story is really powerful and we believe in conversation and communication, obviously, because that's
[01:02:35] Duquette: Yeah.
[01:02:36] Michaela: what we do. And it's, going to hear more of this kind of stuff.
[01:02:39] Duquette: thanks y'all.
[01:02:40] Michaela: thank you. Bye.