Fancy Hagood started his career as a writer in Nashville before because 'discovered' by Scooter Braun, signing to Republic Records, releasing 2 singles - one of which cracked the Billboard top 30 - and then he was dropped by his label, agent, and manager, almost all on the same call. He has been featured on The Today Show, Fallon, and performed with Meghan Trainor, Kacey Musgraves, Ariana Grande, Elle King, and Kaitlin Butts, and since has released 2 critically acclaimed independent records, hosted Trailblazers Radio on Apple Music, and was recently honored with the Visibility Award by the Human Rights Campaign Nashville. We chat with Fancy about creating your own lane when the industry doesn't value you, inviting more people to the table, the optimism and opportunity in getting dropped from you label, the magic all around, the gift of delusion, and a whole lot more.
Fancy Hagood started his career as a writer in Nashville before because 'discovered' by Scooter Braun, signing to Republic Records, releasing 2 singles - one of which cracked the Billboard top 30 - and then he was dropped by his label, agent, and manager, almost all on the same call. He has been featured on The Today Show, Fallon, and performed with Meghan Trainor, Kacey Musgraves, Ariana Grande, Elle King, and Kaitlin Butts, and since has released 2 critically acclaimed independent records, hosted Trailblazers Radio on Apple Music, and was recently honored with the Visibility Award by the Human Rights Campaign Nashville. We chat with Fancy about creating your own lane when the industry doesn't value you, inviting more people to the table, the optimism and opportunity in getting dropped from you label, the magic all around, the gift of delusion, and a whole lot more.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of The Other 22 Hours Podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Michaela: And I'm your other host, Michaela Anne. We're just getting rolling at the very beginning of our third year of these conversations, and today we're featuring our conversation with Fancy Haygood.
Aaron: Yeah, Fancy got his start in Nashville, he was found by the infamous Scooter Braun, and signed to Republic Records, and moved to L.
A., and was in the full pop machine, Releasing two singles one of which made it to the billboard top 40. I think he said it's like 29 or something So made a substantial 10 in there and then that was deemed a failure and he was Promptly dropped from his label lost his manager and his agent pretty much all in one phone call
Michaela: But his story doesn't stop there.
He shared with us [00:01:00] his whole journey from there until now, all the big things that he's gotten to do performing with and or opening for people like Meghan Trainor, Kacey Musgraves, Ariana Grande, Elking, Kaitlyn Butts, and now he is self releasing independently his own solo records. Also, namely, under his own name identity.
Something we talk about is how his career started by hiding his identity.
Aaron: Yeah, and that's like a great foreshadowing for the whole conversation, really. You know, We talk a lot about, trusting yourself, trusting your path, finding your lane, and like, really leaning into it.
And, with that How beautiful hindsight is and how beneficial adversity and times of struggle and hardship actually are fancy says, woo. I like to think the universe doesn't say no It just says not now or I've got something better for you
Michaela: and he talks a lot about really recognizing that if you're having to explain yourself over and over again, that you're not at the right table and finding the right space for you and not [00:02:00] letting those wrong spaces inform how you feel about yourself.
Aaron: Yeah, it's one of those lightning conversations that just like The starting gun goes and so does the conversation and it doesn't really slow down or let off the gas until the very end
Michaela: Where we all cry we
Aaron: doStick around for that, but as always there are portions of this conversation that we touched on that were suggestions from our Patreon communityand because the folks over there Get advanced notice of who our guests are and so they can submit questionsor topics for us to touch on There's also a whole lot of other things that we're constantly adding or taking away or evolving over there It is a living breathing community And it's also the sole way that we fund and support this show So if that interests you on any level there is a link below in the show notes
Michaela: And if you're a visual person, this conversation as well as all of our previous conversations are available on YouTube.
And without further ado, here is our conversation with the wonderful Fancy Haygood.
Hi, Fancy.
Fancy: How are you?
Michaela: We're good, [00:03:00] how are you?
I'm well, thank you.
Are you home in Nashville right now?
Fancy: I am home in Nashville for once, it feels like.
Michaela: yeah. You've had a busy year,
Fancy: it's been a little wild,
Michaela: you know, nothing I didn't Absolutely ask for and dream of but yeah, it's been a busy year of touring and just not being home But it's nice to enjoy some slow down Well, I haven't slowed down. I get home and then I just get bored so then I party So thenYeah.
Fancy: I don't know what i'm talking about.
I'm not slowing down at all,
Aaron: like to relate it to the moving walkways at the airport, like the flat escalators, you know, it's just one to the other.
Fancy: That's a good comparison
Michaela: but it feels good to at least be a home base for a little bit.
Fancy: totally
Michaela: We're excited to have you on I know you and I have talked about like what the premise of this podcast is for us and for me it's so interesting because when I ask people to come on like some people I know and varying levels of depth.
And then I do some research beforehand and I've been aware of you for a while and [00:04:00] we've seen each other out and I've always just known you as sweet, kind, fancy and a friend of Maddie's and then I started researching. I was like, Oh, I didn't know any of your backstory. There's so much to dig into today, and one of the, impetuses of asking you on other than just in general having you on the list was that Brandy Clark talked about you when she was a guest and talked about the importance of your songs and said she thinks that they're going to save a lot of people and I was digging in realizing a lot of your story Has been really deep to get you to this place where you are now where it feels like Through your music and your artistry and your presentation.
It's a lot about fully owning who you are if I'm correct
Fancy: whole of my career so far. When I first came on the scene, a team of industry people out of the wonderful town of Los Angeles, gave me the moniker, who is [00:05:00] fancy and what a beautiful way to let everyone know that you do not know who you are by putting a question mark in your name and hiding your identity.
And, it was a really interesting time in my life. I was young. I was like 24 when I got my first record deal. you know, I wanted it so badly because at that point I had been in Nashville for, I moved here in 2009. And so by the time I got my record deal and got moved to LA and all that stuff, so many people had commented on how I could not be myself and have the career I had always longed for and dreamed of.
And so, from the jump, my mission was to be 100%, all the things people told me I couldn't be, and that was myself. I think, unfortunately, in your early 20s, no matter whether you're gay, straight, whatever, it's a time of self discovery. So, I think if I'm being honest with myself, maybe I didn't know who that person was, but I did know My passion and my mission was to set myself free [00:06:00] so others could be free too.
And I've always known that from day one, the mission statement has been to be myself so other people could see themselves being themselves as well. And that's never changed. Not from the first time. Goodbye. My top 40 hit my first single that came out to putting out my, sophomore album independently this year.
The mission statement is very much. The same
Aaron: Yeah, we talk about that and ruminate on that a lot on the show about like, just how showing up authentically and in integrity, gives others permission to show up
Fancy: for sure. And it's also a hard thing to do because we work in an industry, we're, all we're doing is staring at analytics and numbers and what's successful, what's not successful. And we're as artists judged, in a place we don't create from, we don't create thinking about numbers or, you know, I guess we all long for the masses to hear it, but the older I get and the longer I'm in this game, the more I realize I have to create for myself.
I have to please my inner child and who I am, [00:07:00] before anyone else is going to be able to gravitate towards it. And, I didn't have as big of a year as Sabrina Carpenter, but I had one of the biggest years in my own personal career. So it's like, I know I'm on the right path. I know I'm doing the right thing.
it just feels so positive, you know? and when I started music, it never felt positive. It always felt like a mountain. I think that's because I was judging my own success based off other people's. Opinions and thoughts and ideas of what success looks like for everyone. And I think, it's just true.
Success looks different for everyone.
with my first two singles that we put out on Republic Records, I have over a hundred million streams on those two songs. But that's a deal that I would literally never be able to recoup from. I would never be able to. Make that money back or get on top of what you need to do.
And, with my doing this independently, we just found out I've recouped, I'm likein a really good position moving the new year. And it's like, those would never be conversations. When I lived in LA, if I wasn't number one on the billboard chart, but at conversations I'm having now [00:08:00] as a 33 year old who owns all my masters.
Does this independently and works with a very close knit, small team of people who believe in my vision. And that to me feels like success.
Aaron: Yeah, would agree with you on that. can you tell us a little bit about the interim between those two between like a major label record and like the machine that is that side of the industry to where you are now, I mean, what was it like exiting that machine, whether it was by choice or by force or
Fancy: I don't mean to brag, but I've been dropped from every professional contract I've ever entered into, um,It all happened in one fell swoop. I got a call from my day to day manager when I lived in LA and she's like,you know, I think this isn't, it's crazy because it was working, you know, how many people can saymy first single ever was a top 40 hit played on radio stations.
Everywhere. I had all this stuff happening but behind the scenes is what was not working. I am not very movable in [00:09:00] my. Thought process and my creativity and I was just kind of like in this machine where they made decisions for you And you just had to show up and be what they want you to be that was never gonna work for me So actually with hindsight it felt so soul crushing to get dropped from your label your management your agents all in one fell swoop You know, I was 26 years old you just feel like all of your dreams are just being Crushed right in front of you.
But when I looked back at it now with hindsight, what a gift hindsight is because I look at it and I'm like, wow, those people did me such a favor and they could have shelved me. They could havekept me in these contracts that I would never recoup from. I would never be able to get out from under it.
I think I was in like a four album record deal with Republic and I didn't even turn in one. We literally released two singles. I mean, I could have been shelved, and the best thing that they did for me was let me go and let me do my own thing. Again, that's hindsight. 26 year old me did not think that way I was in a tailspin.
It was really hard. I think I spent [00:10:00] maybe like six months in LA after that, and then came back to Nashville where I cut my teeth with songwriting and where I started my whole journey. And, the original goal for me was to be a country artist.
That's why I moved to Nashville. I grew up loving country music. Nickel Creek being my favorite band of all time since I was in middle school. I really just was on fire for it and it's what I wrote and then moving to Nashville was told that's not gonna happen for you. I decided to move back because of my community, the people I'm lucky enough to call friends here that have supported me when I worked there forever.
21 when I had a top 40 hit and today then it's like my manager is my best friend Natalie and, There was a lot of lows between 2016 when I lost everything to now. you know, I was on the late show. I toured with the honor grande and the next, you know, I'm living in Nashville. Not really sure how I was going to pay my rent, checking IDs at a bar.
You know, It's like, it was a really. Big fall from grace. It was really humbling, and I was addicted to diet [00:11:00] pills. I was a crazy person, legitimately detached from reality, and it just took a lot of honest conversations with people that cared about me. What are you doing? Like, You need to get it together. And I basically ended up signing a new publishing deal because my best friend, who's now my manager, Natalie, started working for a publisher named Steve Marklin, who's an earth angel at,Downtown Music, publishing. And, you know, the conversation, he's like, I don't know what to do with a pop artist.
I'm like, I don't know that I am a pop artist. they just kept plugging me in rights without being my official publisher. And they were loving what I was turning in. And I just kept showing up over and over and over doing whatever, they asked me to do. And then they ended up signing me to a publishing deal.
end of 2017 into 2018. And Steve was like, what do you want to do? Like, What can I do for you? I. Just had this like really clear vision of like I want money. I want time and I want space I don't want anyone speaking into my creative process. want to go away. I don't want to talk about genre I don't want to talk about pop music.
[00:12:00] I don't want to talk about country music I just want to create and then he gave me enough money to record four songs Like an EP basically and I went to London and I was writing in London a lot just because there it's not so genre specific you know, really country music At that time, it wasn't really like popping off over there, so there wasn't really an understanding of like your true country, or I jokingly say at my shows, I was too queer for Nashville and too Nashville for LA, so I ended up in London making music and, it was just so freeing.
It was just like exactly what I needed. I didn't know I would need that. I didn't have this like, well, I'm going to go to London and do this. It was just. presented itself. The next thing I know, I'm writing these songs that really felt like a cornerstone. To my whole story celebrating the things that have been obstacles for me, my sexuality, being from where I'm from, all of these things that just never made sense to other people about me became the cornerstone of what I was writing about, my own experience, and it was the first time I was truly writing [00:13:00] about that, my experience as a queer person, In these places that, don't accept me, I thought when I moved to L.
A. that the conversation about my sexuality was going to be over because you think of Los Angeles is this progressive Mecca for queer people and I never felt more closeted when I lived in L. A. working in the system and trying to be I felt like everything about me had to shrink. And when I was in London writing, I felt myself growing.
And I felt myself able to show up in a new way, to tell a story in a new way because it felt authentic, I wasn't trying to be anything. And I realized if the question for the first chapter of my career was who is, this next chapter was going to be the answer. It was just so freeing. It was just Steve Marklin and Natalie Osborne gave me exactly what I asked for.
And I think that's a rare thing in this industry where artists ask for space and time and cash money and someone just says, [00:14:00] okay,
Michaela: Yeah. Yeah.
Fancy: And it started as like a four song EP. And next thing I know recorded with John Green and Topher Brown, who I have known at that point for a little less than a decade, but Topher was one of my first co writes in town, and John Green is a dear like, family friend.
And, next thing I know, we've recorded 19 songs, and my album, Southern Curiosity, was born. And, it was, not the beginning, but the beginning. You know, I think the beginning of me having, self esteem again, when it came to music. The beginning of me wanting to really pursue the artist thing again.
I've always been an artist. I've always known I'm an artist, but outside voices have questioned me from the jump and the question was suddenly erased. I knew exactly who I was. I am Fancy Hager. I'm from Bentonville, Arkansas, and I love country music. And actually when Southern Curiosity was first made, I had so much PTSD around the genre conversation that.
My management at the time wanted to label it as a country [00:15:00] album. And I refused, the rejection I had felt from Music Row, from Nashville, I did not want to be a part of it. And then we put it out and wouldn't, you know, that every playlist it lands on is country. Every everywhere it was getting love was like a country outlet.
And I was like. They told me I don't belong. And now it's just where it's landing. And I realized like my original dream is alive still. And maybe, you know, in 2010, 2011, Nashville wasn't ready for Fancy Haygood, the queer country icon, but maybe in 2021, they are. even more so now with American Spirit going into the studio, knowing exactly what I wanted to do. The biggest difference is that intention. Southern Curiosity was made with zero intention. I just knew I wanted to create with no one around me. I just wanted to create with people who weren't speaking into who or what I am. And I got that. And so with American Spirit, my [00:16:00] sophomore album, I was listening to all the artists I listened to when I moved to Nashville originally in 2009.
That's Sarah Evans, Little Big Town, Keith Urban, I mentioned Nickel Creek earlier. They're a huge influence for me. These were the songs I was listening to when I drove to Nashville for the first time in my Dodge Nitro, and it's the music I was listening to before going in to create American Spirit.
was just so much intention of me wanting to make the album I moved here to make. When I was 17 years old and I'm finally getting the opportunity to do it as a 33 year old and it feels really magical and all of the highs, all of the lows suddenly feel so worth it.
Michaela: Mm-hmm I'm standing in a studio surrounded by people I've known for over a decade, you know, like that's a lot of time.
Fancy: It's a lot of investment and community and friendship I feel like you can really hear it in my album. There's not one person on there. That's not a part of. My life, in a personal note. it's really special. It really feels, like an arrival, but also a [00:17:00] return, if that makes sense.
I feel like I'm arriving to that original dream that I had to take this crazy journey to get to, but I'm here and it feels really empowering and it feels, yeah, gratitude is just what I'm sitting in with this album with the people I got to make it with. I'm an independent artist too, so. really is like all hands on deck.
And, I'm not with downtown music publishing anymore, but I'm still working with downtown as music service, so they've been a really big part of my creative journey as an independent artist and really give life to what I do. So I am independent, I own my masters, but there's large team of people that are pouring into this and that.
Are saying you deserve to take up space exactly where you are. And that feels so empowering, especially the amount of times I've been told, you know, you don't belong here. The amount of people that are showing up to say your dream is valid and we're going to help you is really empowering.
Michaela: Yeah.
Aaron: I can only imagine.
Michaela: I feel emotional just listening to you talk.
Fancy: every time I talk about [00:18:00] this stuff, I'm on the verge of tears. So if I,
Michaela: am too. Yeah.
Fancy: act cool.
Michaela: I mean, these are genuinely the conversations that we love because we talk a lot about how,
Fancy: a little
Michaela: Especially when you're young and you start out, it's like there's this common thread of like we all kind of want to avoid what we perceive as failure, what we perceive as hardship, what we perceive as rejection, and the reason we often tell people that we get pitched to be guests on this podcast we make exceptions, but we prefer to talk to people who are at least like 10 years into their career, at least a couple albums, because we feel like for better or worse, the real growth and becoming who you are. It inevitably does come through challenge at some point, so it's kind of like we want to talk to people who have survived getting roughed up a little bit, as weird as that sounds, but it's so unfortunate and disappointing and painful to hear what you [00:19:00] experienced.
And not just like, getting turned down and likebeing ignored in spaces, but people articulating to you directly, you don't belong, who you are is going to prohibit you from doing what you want to do in life. That's heartbreaking. At the same time, it's beautiful to see where you, you are at right now, the process that you've gone through from what you've shared and what I've read of maybe believing that for a little bit and then fighting your way through and maybe knowing yourself even better now because of.
That rejection of yourself and how fucked up that is, but how wonderful it is and how inspiring it is that you're choosing to share it because people who say that people like you don't belong or that the story isn't relatable are absolutely living under a rock because there are so many people who relate to your story.
Not just queer men from the South,
Fancy: My favorite thing being on tour as much as I've gotten to tour this year, been my biggest touring year yet. I've driven, [00:20:00] nearly 30, 000 miles by myself in a car, showing up to
Michaela: Mm
Fancy: and selling my own merch and doing the thing. Andfirst it feels, like, Oh my God, what am I doing?
I can't do this. And then you do it. And I feel meeting people who come to my merch stand and they're like, can I tell you about my son? Or can I tell you about my goddaughter? Or I didn't understand a situation until I listened to your music and it's opened my eyes. And my other favorite thing that I love so much is when someone says to me.
I didn't know I liked country music until I heard your record, or until this song, and it just shows me, look, am I gonna become like, CMA's biggest country artist, we don't know, I don't think so, but that's no longer my goal, my goal is to be the biggest artist Fancy Haga can be, I no longer want to compare myself, or compete, do I think Morgan Wallen's fans are going to like, hear my album and be like, Yes, this is our thing.
No, but what I do think is there's people out there that have not seen themselves in a genre and that can celebrate it and [00:21:00] love it because it's storytelling. All country music is storytelling. In Morgan Wallen's case it's storytelling with a trap beat under it. So it's just one of those things, like we're telling stories.
I'm not trying to convert any country music fan that only likes one certain thing to be my fan. I'm trying to open the table up and invite people who may be, just may be love storytelling like I do and love music and, can see themselves for the first time in a genre that has been pretty much.
Exclusive to one group of people until this moment in time. And what a beautiful moment in time. To be a creator, to be someone existing in Nashville that loves telling stories and loves relating and, putting my emotion into song so other people can feel, I don't know how people that don't create.
Music get through hard times. It's like songwriting and all of that has been so healing for me. And I realized, we do this as a service. We're doing this for other people to relate and to maybe hear something that [00:22:00] makes them feel more whole or more seen or cared for or held. That makes me emotional
Michaela: Mm-hmm so many people that don't hear their stories being told in country music and their stories are valid.
Mm-hmm know that because my story is valid and it's, a beautiful time. There's so much adversity happening in the world and it's. hard sometimes when you're watching the news, but being on the road, spending time with people that are listening to my music, it gives me so much hope for the future.
Fancy: the way Nashville is going to look a lot different 10 years from now, just like it looked a lot different 10 years ago. I was here. I know. back then me running around music row, and I used to wear full face makeup and I had platinum blonde hair and I was But back then, there wasn't that many openly queer artists pursuing it. And now, there's so many of us, what I love about that is it's a movement. It is happening because more people are being brave enough to say, I deserve to take up space. And if I can be a little part of that in anyone's story, Music Row, [00:23:00] in Nashville, that's what I'm here to do.
I want to be a part of that. A culture shift here in Nashville and does that mean country music as a whole is going to be different? I don't know. I hope so, but it is going to open up lanes for other people To enjoy it as well we're not trying to alienate anyone in country music We're trying to invite more people to this party Take that whole Beyonce thing Beyonce made a country album Everyone gets all up in arms and i'm like do y'all not realize?
How many doors she just opened for so many people. I mean, Just the fact alone that she put so many artists of color on her album to give them a platform to prop them up. think that is just world class first of all, but aside from that, she introduced country music to so many people who would never have listened to it.
And everyone benefits from that. So it's just about pulling out the chair and inviting people to the party. And I don't understand why people don't get that.
Michaela: it's hard to remember, especially living in Nashville and being in the music industry, that the average listener or music fan out in the [00:24:00] rest of the world or America, Isn't thinking of these things in the same way that like music executives or music journalists or we are and just thinking of how a lot of the negative voices can be so loud that we think that it's the majority And it's not and how to quiet those voices.
I mean The morgan wallen reference. I just immediately thought of My cousin who's mom and works and she's probably completely unaware of any of the controversy around Morgan Wallen and what he said or anything. She's a big Morgan Wallen fan. She's told me how much she loves his songs. I guarantee you she would love your songs and her sister is a gay woman and our family is very supportive and has always been supportive and like she would never make those connections of why we would maybe think Okay.
Would Morgan Wallen fans like Fancy Haygood? Maybe not.Actually, I think there are probably a lot of them out there that would.
Aaron: Yeah, I don't understand why, in my perception, and I'm sure this is [00:25:00] in other genres, I just, being in Nashville, it's very easy to see the country music industry.
To me, they don't approach it like, more is more. like you said, like Beyonce opened so many doors. You know, you,showing up with your story and the courage to be yourself in that is going to open up so many doors you've used the word brave and courage so much in this and I, see that and I feel that in your story you showing up, but you don't see that coming from these major labels.
the courage to invest in this person or invest in this. It's like if you guys supported these other artists and these other Approaches all that rather than likeevery Luke and Brian and like all of that that make to my perhaps uneducated years the same fucking song like You know if the buffet had more options, maybe more people would show up
Fancy: Yeah, no, listen,
just one of those things it'll make anyone crazy trying to make sense of it. Truly. I remember when I was signed to a label, I realized every conversation was so based in fear. Everyone is scared of failure, like we talked about already. Everyone [00:26:00] is scared of putting in a big investment and it failing, right? Every decision starts being made around fear. But what, starts getting confusing is when they start using words like palatable, is middle America going to be scared of you? Are they going to accept you? And I'm like, I hate to tell y'all this. I am from Bentonville, Arkansas.
I don't know how you can get more middle America.
Michaela: Right.
Fancy: I'm a product of what you are talking about.
No one knows that place better than me. Everything I am is a product of how I grew up, what I was taught, how I was raised and then me becoming an adult and making choices for myself. I just think we have to let go of the fear.
That being said, I make music for myself. I'm trying to heal my inner child. I'm trying to like. Show for myself emotionally, and that's really hard sometimes, but I don't make music for music executives because this music business was not built for someone like me to be successful.
So why would I continue to just take on the challenge of trying to be [00:27:00] successful in a space that does not see me and doesn't recognize me as valuable when I can step aside, create my own lane, do my own thing, and really focus on. What matters and that is the music and finding people that share my vision.
that's what I've learned in 2024. This year has taught me that nothing is more powerful than a shared unified vision. And I've always sat at tables with people who made me explain myself. And that's something now, as someone who sees myself of my business, I'm in the fancy Hager business. I am not in the music business.
I am in the business of storytelling and trying to help people. Heal and relate. Emote and that has nothing to do with numbers and all this stuff. I'm over here doing my own thing and that's all I can focus on for my own mental health, for my own sanity, it is all I can focus on. I've spent too much time in my career focusing on other things and allowing other people's outside scared voices speaking into my passions, and that's over.
I sit at a [00:28:00] table with people who see me, who when I articulate my vision and again, to have a shared vision, you do have to. a way to articulate what that is and it has to be clear But I'm finally sitting at a table with people who are like fuck. Yeah, hell yes, and it has legs and it's just gonna happen whether you're a Grammy award winning Superstar selling at arenas or whether a queer independent artist.
There's days where you just are like am I good enough? And I know that because I'm friends with all these people and I, see how it never ends. So it's just finding those small victories in your own lane and like being able to celebrate whatever you need to celebrate to keep going. And that's what I realized, I had a top 40 hit.
I was number 29. On a pop chart. And I was treated like I was a failure because I wasn't number one and two who were also on the same roster. That's no longer how I'm going to measure my success. I look back on that time now with such joy, because I'm like, wow, the proof is in the pudding.
I can compete on a very high level. I've already [00:29:00] done it. And now I'm just gonna have to figure out how to do it my way, on my time, on my dime, and, we're gonna get there.
Aaron: Yeah, man. So much was resonating in my head as you were, talking there. Like, The one thing about having the hell yes voice at your table versus the hell. No, like the only thing I can think of is it's like. You know that whole concept that like if you look at a squirrel like it's a horse It's a fucking horrible animal like squirrels are really bad at being horses Or conversely if you try to like think of a horse They're trying to climb a tree and make a nest like it's gonna suck.
will
but
Fancy: do we get that out of there?
Aaron: know what I mean, it's like out of that fear, if you hold this outline up and be like, Oh no, it doesn't fit there. You miss what you're actually looking at and you miss all of the gold that's there that is so intriguing and it's so fresh and it's so inspiring to listeners and to other artists and to the artists themselves who needs to remain inspired to continue to release this.
Product that's going to make your company money that to [00:30:00] me is like a no brainer the other thing that people interested in there was celebrating the successes and I think That's really important. I keep a,note in my phone of wins that I'll look back on, not nearly enough, but it like,helps.
I'll just copy a text and drop it in there, just something just to like, remind myself hey, this happened. This is working, because it's so easy to get caught in the goo of all of the
Fancy: exist in a world where to keep someone's attention, feel like you're relevant all the time. It's just impossible. So you can take the pressure off. You know, That list is a really great idea And I'm gonna steal that because
Aaron: I stole it.
Fancy: on a daily basis that I'm that bitch I need the reminders because there's so many outside voices and other things being like you can't do this you're not enough because people are speaking from their place of fear or their insecurity and It is important to remember we are all accomplishing our Amazing things in our own lane.
And it's just about staying in your own lane and counting those victories that are. for you, [00:31:00] you know, because all of those little victories start adding up to big wins. And if you can't celebrate the little ones, you might as well not celebrate the big ones. And I'm tired of counting losses.
There's too many. And that goes for anyone in this industry. It's a fickle beast. And the more successful you get, the more problems you get, You're just the same insecure artist trying to like, express yourself on a larger scale with more eyes.
That's terrifying. it never ends. It's just about finding the way to celebrate yourself and to keep what you're talking about. the want alive, the want to keep creating, the want to keep expressing yourself, the want to keep showing up. Though, some days it's harder than others.
I just remember when I was signed to a label, when I was touring with all these artists in arenas, I was so unhappy and I'm like why am I unhappy? All these bucket list things are happening. And it's because I was no longer creating for myself. I wasn't being celebrated. I was hitting all these milestones and it wasn't enough for the people at my table.
And so I can't [00:32:00] sit there anymore.
Aaron: there is a history of this in country music, of not being accepted and being like, you know what, fuck it, I'm going to find my lane and I'm going to lean into it. I mean, Willie Nelson, famously, Willie can walk into any country music room, award show, anywhere and everybody is going to stand up and applaud him.
and he had to do that same thing, even on a smaller scale, like Roger Miller, he didn't leave, but like the music that Roger Miller was writing and making was fucking weird for everything else that was going on. And he leaned to it and he became huge, you know, it's just like, find your lane lean into it and own it.
Michaela: Well, And it's always a good reminder. Like, we'd like to try as much as possible in these conversations, especially when we talk to people who have had, moments or higher levels of perceived outside success of trying to break the myth that outside achievements and accolades actually do fill us up.
I have a small indie career and I think there's still a voice in my head that's like, yeah, but. could I be the one that's actually fulfilled by, that little voice that's like, oh, money doesn't buy you happiness. Well, Maybe I would be happy if I had more money.
[00:33:00] Like, And hearing over and over from people that you are still the same person. And what I've been realizing is that those insecurities, those not feeling enough. All that stuff. It doesn't ever go away. It's just on a scale and it just moves up that all of a sudden, selling 100 tickets 500 tickets is a failure because it's not a thousand and then you've sold 10, 000 tickets or 100, 000 tickets and then you go back to selling 10, 000 tickets.
That's an epic failure for some people. It's just a scale that continually moves. That is up to every person individually to decide what do I want to be fulfilled by. I read an interview with you where you talked about, driving around by yourself this year, opening shows and selling your own merch and like how fulfilling the human connectivity was for you.
to me, as I'm listening to you talk, it sounds like you got out of the business business and [00:34:00] into the human business of music again.
Fancy: You know, If the goal is to tell your stories, to connect to people, when I put out my first album, it was a global pandemic, really great timing. so, you know, I wasn't touring. I don't know who's listening to the music and, talking about selling tickets. I learned this summer on the road, when you show up, whether there's one person or 200 people or a thousand, the fact that anyone is standing in a room, singing words.
I created,
Michaela: Mhm.
Fancy: and relating to it. That is a win. my dream was to be a musician. My dream was to create for a living and to really be a performer and to entertain. And the summer on the road, I'm logging so many hours in a car by myself. And I was jokingly calling the tours I was on, my Eat Pray Love tour because I was just out of a relationship. And that breakup was really hard and I really became Julia Roberts out in the road because I got to know myself again in a new way and, to see my art living with people and people telling me the stories of like, our first [00:35:00] dance was to your song or, your song forest is like my kid's favorite song or just knowing that people are inviting me into their lives.
What a gift. You can sit here in Nashville and just wonder what's happening. And you can look at the numbers and just think, oh well, it's not streaming like other people or whatever, but then you're out there and you're meeting these people and they're telling you how you are a part of their life.
And I don't take that lightly. That actually lands on me like a ton of bricks because the dream was for me just to make music and just to have that as a career. And I do have that. I'm blessed. And the fact that people care enough to let me be a part of these major events of their life. To let their kids listen to my music.
I'm there on their big days. I'm there on their hard days. that's what I take with me when I'm in the studio. That's what I take with me when I'm thinking about what's next for me what, I'm creating. The atmosphere that's out in the world right now is so Bleak. people are just looking for joy.
People are looking for hope. And that's what I [00:36:00] want to give people and, being on the road getting that validation of we're here, we hear you and it means something to us will never be lost on me,
Aaron: It's easy to overlook, but there's a big difference between the quantity of connection being like the numbers and the metrics and the quality of connection with your audiences. And I think it's the quality of connection that really makes for longevity.
you don't need 8 million fans. You know, My favorite thing that I like to say on this show is if you have a thousand fans worldwide That are spending a hundred dollars on you in a year. You're making six figures that's it a thousand fans in the entire world out of eight billion people, the other analogy I bring is like, you know, you look at social media and beyonce has however many million followers Say 20 million.
I think i'm trying to it short, but say 20 million followers If she gets a hundred thousand likes on a picture, that's what, like 2 percent 1 percent of her followers interacting with her, you know, but it's a hundred thousand likes. It's like, the quality of the connection there, like you were saying, your music making an [00:37:00] impact on somebody's life enough that they like.Get a babysitter or, drive however long it was to come to your show, buy the ticket, show up, and then wait to be able to speak to you after like, that's what matters.
Fancy: It's really special and we live in a world where I think fame is sold to us is like this exclusive, I'm up here and you're over here.
I was really lucky in this life to get to know Leslie Jordan, the late Leslie Jordan. He was a dear friend of mine and a mentor and a lot of things have happened for me in the lastfour years because of my friendship with him and his belief in me and something I learned from him.
Anywhere I was with him, we could be eating at a restaurant. We could be walking down the street. If someone stopped to talk to him. He gave them the Leslie Jordan experience. It didn't matter if it was a minute, it didn't matter if it was 10 minutes, he would get up from the table and go do his thing.
And one time I asked him, I said, does that ever get annoying to you? And he said, honey, it'll be annoying when it stops. And I just realized like, wow, he really values. That people care. He values [00:38:00] that people are walking up to him to say can I have a picture or this video that you posted Pulled me out of a dark time or the character you played made me see myself And that's how I related to him
Michaela: hmm. Leslie on Will and Grace was one of the first flamboyant other than Jack Seeing Beverly Leslie and Jack from Will and Grace as a flamboyant gay kid in Arkansas who was being tortured every day at school For being that way, seeing them on TV being celebrated and making fun of themselves and having confidence.
Fancy: That did a number on me in a very positive way. So getting to meet someone like that and to learn from them, I know that, some people are above sitting at a merch table selling their own merch. And sometimes it is just like logistically not possible for people, but for as ever long as it's possible for me, it's something I will do that connection.
People invite me into their lives and that was my dream. And so those people are giving me my dream and I want to be there. I want to [00:39:00] be there to be the fancy that they want to talk to or want to meet or want to share their story with. I'm not above that. I'll never be above it. And I'm grateful for a icon like Leslie Jordan to teach me that because it's just remembering, the hunger, remembering that, why the want and the fact that people show up at all.
Is a miracle in this economy. we just have to remember our Y and those people in the crowd, singing those words back, inviting us into their lives. That is the only one.
Michaela: I think as I'm listening to you talk about this, it's also, the challenge of holding on to wonder that in every aspect of life today, I feel like societally, you're told It's silly or shameful to be in awe of things in life and to be soft and sensitive and emotional.
I mean, We don't even need to go down the political landscape, but what is completely celebrated is the opposite of that. And I think [00:40:00] of all the names that are like insults of like bleeding heart liberals and snowflakes. And I'm like, I think I went through a time where I've felt very self conscious of how emotional I am.
Like I've already cried in this episode. I'm like, I'm very emotional. And I like,think the music business let me think that I should be jaded and that maybe the way to success was to want more and to need more and to try and maneuver. I think genuinely also becoming a mother and watching um, a little child.
Wonder and excitement and all this stuff has just broken me open that I'm like, it's too exhausting to pretend to be different. And it really is like you go out on tour and you're, risking a lot by, spending money to do it. I've had shows that are utterly devastating because there's nobody there and I've literally been holding back tears, but then I've also had shows Like one of our favorite shows we always talk about, we played in Woodstock in 2019 and there was a massive blizzard. [00:41:00] halfway through the show, there were like seven people there. And halfway through the show, this couple walked in and they were wearing, My merch t shirt from the stage.
I was like, oh my god. Hi. There's moreThey were like we just drove up from brooklyn. Did you play this song? That is our favorite and we were like we did but like there's literally seven people here now nine Let's play it again. And we just had
like
Aaron: and the whole crowd was like, yeah play it again Like it all of a sudden became like we were playing a living room.
Everybody's like cool. Yeah They were excitedthat these people made it in a snowstorm and like it just It felt so good.
Michaela: Yeah. And you could look at it of like, damn, that was bad luck, bad timing, a financial loss. There's other people invested in this that are probably disappointed by this night. Or you could look at it with wonder of like, can you believe that two people drove three hours in a blizzard to come here? it's hard to take that position in this life. And I continually try and tell myself, no, that's the choice I want [00:42:00] to make because
Fancy: Yeah.
Michaela: Pretty wonderful if you live in a state of wonder. We have a 3-year-old, and she's in a state of wonder all the
Fancy: I read this book called Conversations with God by Neil Donald Walsh. And he talks about how we enter this world with all the knowledge we would ever need to be happy and it's as we grow up, we learn to not have that wonder. We learn to be cynical. We learn to be jaded. But the truth is that magic is around us all the time, all the time.
And this world tries to tell us every day that magic is not real. And I'm like, words and melody came out of nowhere and landed in my head. And I was able to catch that tiger by the tail and put it in the world. I believe in magic and it's those little moments too, right?
you're saying like the seven people in that audience, we've all had those moments. We've all had what feels like a disappointment turn into something spiritual turn into something we'll never forget. And it's like the wonder [00:43:00] is so important. And I think that's why it's important for me to keep the.
Bend this side of things away from my heart
it just lands on me in a negative way sometimes. it makes me think about this stuff differently and. When I'm thinking about the magic, I have to believe that I'm living in my truth I'm living in what I know is my calling, and so no matter what, whether the call is bad or positive, I know I'm doing the right thing, I know I'm on the right track, and this will sustain, because I'm taken care of, the universe is working for me, because I'm living in my truth I'm living in my truth.
feel that for the first time in a long time, honestly. And I think that's why I could never find happiness, even with success on the front end of my career, I wasn't standing in my truth and I feel like getting to that place is ever moving and changing and you have to be working towards it every day.
But I do feel like where I'm at in my career, I feel like I'm living in my truth and it feels like the magic is real like I said, I'm [00:44:00] independent. It all comes out of my pocket. we just shot a music video yesterday for a song of mine called, isn't that live?
And those costs money. And it's like my business manager being like we don't really have that. I'm just like, I got to do it. I got to believe in this. I got to believe in this project. I got to promote it because I think it matters. And then, you know. days later we get the call, by the way, you've recouped because of this random thing and you're like, what?
That's the magic. Taking the risk, letting yourself exist, being honest with yourself about who you are and where you are and Celebrating it all and then being able to say let's do it. Let's lean in just it's a trust fall
Aaron: absolutely.
Michaela: Well, then you're not standing in your truth And I think it's easy to just fall back And let the magic catch you if you're standing in your true self.
Fancy: I think I would add on to that, that I feel like it's also a trust fall into knowing that it might not look the way that you [00:45:00] think it should have looked and trusting that however it progresses is what the magic is I'm like super woo woo. So it's like, I really believe in that nothingthat's for you misses you. And I also believe that the universe never tells us no. It either says not right now or I have something better and that never feels good in the moment
The gift of hindsight like I keep talking about I can always look back in these moments and be like, oh my god I was being held in that moment.
I was being protected. I was being spared so many different things or when something devastating happens. I survived and you're like, why is this happening to me? And the aftermath of that was me rebuilding my entire life. And what I have now is far greater than what I had then. And it kind of took a clean slate for me to have the perspective to say, wow, what a blessing that that storm was in my life.
It was a blessing. I got gifted therapyfor a year from that tragedy, and it [00:46:00] changed my life. And I'm like, did the universe really think that I was that far gone? That they had to rip the roof off my house for me to like, gain perspective, get myself together, to come back to my true calling, to my true self, to heal.
And it did. That's what it took. So everything is a gift. You just have to like, find the magic in it, like we were talking about.
Aaron: trust that like I can handle this,
Fancy: 100%.
Aaron: I always like using When I've been in times of adversity like that like a friend gave me the image of like a My world was chaotic and swirling and like just felt relentless and he's like just be a samurai in the middle of a hurricane Basically, and you just got to kind of just sit there and just like it's gonna get wet and it's gonna get windy But like you can do it.
It's just gonna suck for a little bit
Fancy: Totally.
Michaela: I reference Tara Brach a lot in life and on this podcast. She's a mindfulness teacher and like Western Buddhist psychologist. She's incredible. And I listened to a talk recently about how to build a heart that's ready and [00:47:00] open to anything.
It's how to have a heart that is open and ready for anything. Because those storms will come.
Fancy: They're unavoidable.
Michaela: yeah. I think also what I'm hearing from your journey is, like, how important it has been to not only like, find yourself, but also be discerning in Finding the right people who align with you and having those in your life rather than trying to adapt to the people that might have the keys.
But recognizing, oh, they're notthe ones it sounds like you've really found over time the people who have the interest and take the time to fully know who you are
Fancy: Yeah.
Michaela: that.
Fancy: if I'm being honest with you all and myself, I don't think I knew I was setting out to find that. It's just what I have found, and I'm so grateful for it, you know, people would ask like,what advice would you give to an artist trying to do what you're doing?
And I used to jokingly be like, don't do it, run. Where now,
answer is different because of my experience within the [00:48:00] last two years of my career. And I tell people, stop sitting at tables where you have to explain yourself. If you have to explain yourself to a point It's just detrimental to your creativity.
It's like you should just be doing whatever comes natural to you. And you should be sitting at a table with people that celebrate that everyone and their mother warns you about yes. People that just say yes, but what they don't warn you about are the dream killers, the no people, the people that no matter what you say or do finding holes and finding ways to tell you why it won't work, why it won't happen, and it's like, those people are so devastatingly hurtful to a creator.
And, again, I think The most well intentioned people in my career have done this, but it's their own fears, their own insecurity, and they're not being careful with anyone's sensitivity or creativity. And. It's about I need to be nurtured. That's what I found out as an artist. I need to be nurtured I can't do this like it's showbiz baby [00:49:00] bullshit.
You know, It's not that for me like I'm sensitive like you were talking about being sensitive and talking about people using snowflake as an insult I'm like, how did we take these beautiful things that are delicate and unique and make it An insult. I am proud to be a snowflake.
I am proud to be one of a kind, unique, and delicate. And that will never be an insult to me, because it's why I'm able to make the art I make. And it's why I'm able to relate to people and have empathy and care. that's all I ever want to put into my music. I want a big My songs with empathy and care and intention.
I want to surround myself with people that understand that and hold that. Delicately that know that I am not this machine. That's just looking for the next number one or the next big success. I am growing. I am building. It is a steady process. And, I might not be where the people around me are in their careers, but I think I'm going to be around for a minute [00:50:00] because I just won't stop.
I have the gift of delusion. I believe in myself. in such a crazy way, I'm like a real housewife in that manner. I just believe in it. I believe in myself. I believe in what, I'm doing. I just am really lucky that I have found the tribe of people that see my worth and my vision and know that it matters and hopefully if we do it right, it'll tell.
All these other people that they have worth and they matter too.
Aaron: That's so beautiful this leads right into a perfect kind of last question that we'd like to ask of people if you were talking to 17 year old fancy on the drive from bentonville to nashville before you hit this industry What would you tell him?
Fancy: Ooh, I'm already in my feels about that because that guy was so present. With me this last year. And I think about it a lot because I'd want to protect him. I'd want to tell him don't sign that deal. Don't go to that meeting. Don't hang out with them. Don't date that guy. Don't do this. But the truth of it is, that he has to go through that find [00:51:00] himself, to be where I'm at, and to have the joy I have. And you want to protect him from that. But I would just tell him more than you know, you matter. Cause you can't protect them from anything. You can't, change the trajectory of, the way life is going to land on that guy. I mean, 17 year old me was, I'd say I'm delusional now.
He was delusional. I thought it was going to take me all of a month to become a Nashville star. You know what I mean? And here we are at 17 years into it, but I just would let him know that he matters more than he or anyone else around him knows and that's probably all I would be able to say before I just like.
Cried for years to come.
Michaela: You just successfully made both of us cry. Yeah. Thisis the first time that all participants are crying in the, it's beautiful to listen to you man, Fancy, so interesting having these conversations because we never know what it's going to be like with somebody and, it's really dependent on the guest's [00:52:00] openness.
And I can't thank you enough for being so open and willing to dig deep and jump in because we don't think we're doing something likeextraordinary, but our whole mission with this, podcast is try to create a little space where we give voice to the human experience and build community We always say that we're likeanti album cycle interviews whenever people are pitching us, we're like, we're not trying to talk to you about necessarily the business we're trying to talk to you about the impact on your Heart and soul and how you do all of this and stay connected and we hear all the time from people just how much these conversations matter to them and help them feel less alone and We know that that's not on us.
That's on our guests So we just want to say a very big thank you. I always go.
Fancy: you guys. It's such an honor that you even wanted to be on the show. You've had pretty much every single one of my favorite creators on here. So when I got that email, I was like, we doing it, baby. This is awesome.
Michaela: Thank you so much for having me. It was so great chatting with y'all.
Aaron:
Michaela: fancy.
[00:53:00] Thank you
Fancy: You all so much.
Michaela: