Kyshona is an acclaimed singer-songwriter, music therapist, and session singer. We talk about the importance of listening to yourself, carving out down-time for yourself, and the power of mission/artistic statements.
Kyshona is an acclaimed singer-songwriter, music therapist, and session singer. We talk about the importance of listening to yourself, carving out down-time for yourself, and the power of mission/artistic statements.
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Aaron: Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Other 22 Hours podcast. I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:05] Michaela: And I'm your host, Michaela Anne. And since this show is brand new, I assume you are a new listener. So thank you for checking it out.
[00:00:14] Aaron: If you haven't listened to this show before, we like to think of it as the anti album cycle show. What does that mean? It means that our guests aren't gonna come on and talk about their latest record or their latest tour. , it's called the other 22 hours because we wanted to focus on the hours that we as musicians are not on stage and explore different tools and routines that our guests use to keep balance in their life and inspiration during the less than shiny times.
[00:00:35] Michaela: Yeah. We wanna pull the curtain back a little bit. Between the two of us, we have 25 years of touring experience and I've spent the better part of the last decade putting out records both on my own as well as with labels touring the world and building an independent career. I know fully that it doesn't always look like what it looks like on social media.
[00:00:54] Aaron: And I started making records with friends in high school. Then I spent years touring with bands, and I've slowly morphed into producing records and writing songs for TV and commercials essentially between Michaela and I we're lifers, nd we've learned there's no one right way to build a career around your passion.
[00:01:11] Michaela: In an industry where everything can feel out of your control, up to luck being in the right place at the right time, who you know, we wanted to focus on the things that feel within our control.
[00:01:21] Aaron: And so with that thinking, we decided to invite all our friends on to have a conversation about the other times they're not in the public eye, and ask them the question, what do you do to create sustainability in your life so you can sustain your creativity?
[00:01:33] Michaela: Today's guest is Kyshona. She's a Nashville based artist, , originally from South Carolina. And with a background in music therapy, Kyshona has a very unique perspective to her songwriting and performance career.
[00:01:47] Aaron: So as you can imagine, we went deep in our conversation right off. We touched on the power of having a mission statement and an artistic statement. And we talked about being intentional with taking time off and carving out time for yourself. And we also touched on the power of saying no.
[00:02:01] Michaela: So without further ado, here's our episode with Kyshona.
What I was going to preface with is this is a brand new podcast and we wanna be really conscious of talking about what are some things that we've found, even if we're not good at implementing them and keeping them consistently in our lives. What are things that we find are helpful because we do need things to be able to sustain this lifelong career
[00:02:27] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:02:27] Michaela: And then sharing that with each other because I think So many people think, why is this so hard for me?
[00:02:35] Kyshona Interview: Yes.
[00:02:35] Michaela: And it's not just hard for one just, person,
[00:02:38] Kyshona Interview Audio: Yeah.
It looks one way on the socials, but man, once we actually start talking to one another, it's like, oh, thank goodness I'm not alone.
[00:02:46] Michaela: Exactly.
[00:02:46] Aaron: Yeah. A hundred percent. And so that, right there is just the whole purpose of this , like you said in that initial email that we sent out, it's like taking what we already all talk about, in our living rooms, and sitting on our porches. putting it out there so we can share with everybody and kind of just normalize this conversation. We're all super creative people. So maybe by sharing all these ideas, we can kind of just raise the tide for everybody and offer some tools and maybe everybody can get on the same page and be like, oh. this is really hard. This isn't right. Like the collective thing that happened during the pandemic when everything slowed down and people were like, oh, this is a grind. How do we do this? You know what I mean? ,
[00:03:23] Michaela: And so many people during the pandemic were like, you know what? I'm kind of relieved. . Like so many people were like,
[00:03:30] Kyshona Interview: I was one of people..
[00:03:31] Michaela: I was like, I'm just so appreciative of the quiet and the biggest thing was the fact that else is doing anything. So I don't feel fomo. I don't feel left behind. I don't feel like I'm,
[00:03:42] Kyshona Interview Audio: . Nothing to compare yourself to,
[00:03:44] Michaela: Yeah. But now everything's back and I feel like every single person is back in it and like, why am I not super happy?
[00:03:52] Kyshona Interview Audio: Yeah. yeah. it's, , I think that's something for me that has been a bit, you know, of the struggle was the, the kind of like push back into the old way of working when I feel like a lot of us had made the decision that we weren't gonna work that way anymore. And then when you've made a change internally, right, for yourself of like, this is what I need to do to take care of self. But then the industry slash our workplace hasn't made that shift. Like, it's hard to be in your new mental state when you're walking into an, an old hat, like an old way of working. So it's like the industry needs to keep up, like needs to catch up to where the artists are. But instead we all just kind of fell back into our old ways.
[00:04:36] Michaela: Yeah. So why do you think that is? And what do you do when you, Do you have instances where you feel that happen in yourself? and how do you make a different decision or do you feel like you are like, well, I guess I just gotta get back in.
[00:04:49] Kyshona Interview: Hmm. It's been a bit of both. I think last year when we all went right back out on the road, I hopped into my old ways, just because I was, which I think everybody. Was doing the same thing, meaning even the venues we're just trying to recoup what we lost. Right?
So trying to recoup, and, and pick right back up where we left off. But that was impossible. and I found myself in a mental and health kind of crisis, like a bit, bit of a scare. And last fall, tap out. Fall of 2021, I had to just tell my, team, like, I can't, I'm not okay. I'm not doing well and I need to cancel everything for the rest of the year, which hurt so much. I don't like being that person that cancels. but I knew that I would no longer be here if I didn't. and it was definitely, I think during that time I realized, the world won't end if I don't show up somewhere. Right.
The art that we make, is important. and the world is ready for it whenever we give it to them. , so therefore, it's okay to take a moment Kyshona. Like that was the thing that I'm, I was trying to learn. So like, even this year, a promise I had to make for myself in 2022 was, , to listen to my body.
Cuz my old habit was like, yeah, okay, your back hurts, but you, you can pay attention to that later. Right now you gotta perform for two hours or you know, right now you gotta load in. You gotta drive
[00:06:10] Kyshona Interview Audio: eight hours, whatever it is. But I was really good at ignoring the physical pains and the mental exhaustion and just pushing through. Because our work depends on us being there, you know, we have to show up physically and mentally.
And, um, my promise to myself this year was like, listen to yourself. So if my body is. I'm hungry. I won't do the whole usual thing of like, okay, but after we drive these three hours, you can eat .
[00:06:40] Aaron: Yeah, Absolutely. you successful with that?
[00:06:44] Kyshona Interview Audio: I'm still working on it. Mm-hmm. , I'm still working on it. If anything, it's been baby steps cuz I wouldn't even externalize it. I would, if there was a pain or something was wrong or I needed something, this is always the inside voice, but I've started to say out loud to my, band mates, I think I'm hungry, or this part of my body hurts just so someone else is aware and I'm not holding it and it's a secret and nobody knows Kyshona passed out, you know?
[00:07:09] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:10] Kyshona Interview Audio: The baby step for me has just been voicing it out loud. What I need, what my body's saying it.
[00:07:16] Aaron: Yeah, absolutely. I think a, the accountability with somebody else, but then, , just the physical act of voicing it, , as a body, like using your physical voice to be like, I need this.
I can help you. And making it external. Yeah. I'm sure it goes a long way.
[00:07:29] Kyshona Interview Audio: And it's almost like, it sounds weird to say, but it's almost like my body's like, thank God she finally heard
[00:07:33] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:07:33] Kyshona Interview Audio: us. She heard me. Goodness.
[00:07:36] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:07:37] Michaela: Yeah. And it's, it can seem, maybe people in a different industry or I'm sure there's other industries that feel this way, I would understand if it seems kind of silly, Just how much this business is built on the idea that the way for you to survive and succeed is to be the last one standing. So who can take it the most? Who can suffer the most and still show up and play all these shows and look at how hard you work And if you don't, well then there's a ton of other people
who will Yeah. For no money, for less sleep. They'll sleep in their car, and it just kind of breeds this idea that you have to sacrifice. Everything .
[00:08:20] Kyshona Interview Audio: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:21] Michaela: to be able to quote unquote make it. Until you get to a certain level, and then you can have your standards and your requirements and everything. But I would think even at some higher so-called level where you're selling tons of tickets and on a bus and whatever, there probably still would be this pressure of. , "but oh, now I have to keep it".
[00:08:46] Kyshona Interview Audio: Exactly. And I've witnessed friends of mine that have gotten to that level that that is a concern. Another stress of, now I'm responsible for all these other people and their work, and not only just me, but my artistry, my words, my music now must also help pay. these people and pay the bus driver pay, the tour manager pay, the front of house guy.
You're thinking of everybody that, you know, we wanna get to that level, but it's just more, there's just more more stress.
[00:09:21] Aaron: Yeah. you're, all of a sudden, this industry making a living, singing your songs and in art in general is such a solitary thing in a lot of ways. And it's almost like when you get to that level, you're like, oh, wow. I'm an employer. When you get to that point and you're traveling with 10, 20 people, more, I'm sure that the pressure is just incredible.
[00:09:40] Kyshona Interview: Yeah. Because then you're not on the music anymore. You're not, you're not thinking of the music anymore.
[00:09:45] Michaela: Right. But then you're supposed to create more emotional work that, is guaranteed to connect with enough people to sustain that level of business.
That's like, just saying that out loud gives me anxiety. Which is maybe why I'm not at that level.
[00:10:02] Kyshona Interview: Hey, I think it was maybe five, six years ago, I just made a promise to myself, I'm not chasing what everyone else is chasing that is not sustainable, and I can't put my worth into what they. say is worthy of, certain level of success. So I've had to honestly for myself, think of what is it that I need?
First of all, why did I start writing music in the first place, right? And then what is it that I need to be able to sustain this work? What is it that I need to fulfill me as well when I'm on the road? Cuz it is an exhausting job. you walk on stage and you are just here, you are energetically holding up a room, you know, , everything is relying on you energetically to engage and that is exhausting.
And then you have to go sell your own merch. If you're, at my level, you go out front and sell your own merch. More energy is going out and then you have to load out and then you have to drive everybody to the next spot and it's like, I had to make the choice for myself of why I do this so that, that kind of stuff makes sense. Like all the, like holding a room. Like what are things that I can do even in the midst of performing that can relieve me of energetically, holding up a room,
And I, I tour with the trio, the vocal trio right now as much as I can, and something that I've, tried to convey, is like I need you to take over at some point so I can step back and just play guitar and let you sing. Cuz then I can like rest. I don't have to hold up the room anymore, right? I can let you shine and if I'm letting you shine, then I can step back here and that's my chance to receive. And it's those moments when I'm opening the door for whoever else is on stage to go and like run forward, creatively on stage with solos, whatever it is that they want to. That is a moment for me to be like, okay, now this is my time to receive.
[00:11:58] Michaela: Mmmm
[00:11:58] Aaron: Hmm.
[00:11:59] Kyshona Interview: And that fills me up a little bit more to push through for the rest of show.
[00:12:02] Aaron: That's great. The back and forth sharing that weight that you were talking about, of holding up the whole room.
[00:12:06] Kyshona Interview: Mm-hmm. .
[00:12:06] Aaron: I think that goes for the whole day when you're on tour, at least at the level that a lot of us are on. It's living organism out there with, , in your case, three people out there that Have to all carry this weight.
But you talking about all the different roles that you have to play leads me to a question that I've wanted to ask since to me, like you're everywhere all the time. You have your organization, your song, you are on the road all the you're making records, and then you're singing on everybody's record all the time. And you're writing with people all the time. How do you juggle that? I mean, I've heard you say a lot, be really intentional with taking space.
[00:12:39] Kyshona Interview: Mm-hmm
[00:12:40] Aaron: And it was in relation to touring. Do you, find yourself having to do that on a day to day?
[00:12:44] Kyshona Interview: Yes. This is , something that I also, I struggle with too, though. It's, it's, I wanna be everywhere. I wanna be able to go do all the things and have all the experiences. And people do call on me in town when it comes to anything therapeutic. If it's, if it has a therapeutic, side to it, people will call on me . And, it hurts, but I do have to look at, now I'm looking at past the day on my calendar. When somebody asks me to go and do a session or a music therapy group, I have to look at what is happening the day before and the day after. So I'm starting to like zoom out, where before I've, I've always been a yes woman.
Like, yes, sure I can be there. I have, I have an hour window I can fit you in, you know? And I think I had to give myself permission to say no at times or even to ask for, I can't do this, but can I do this instead? You know, something that might benefit my schedule a bit more. So, , it's definitely me going in, like for music therapy sessions, I have a Calendly,
[00:13:44] Aaron: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:45] Kyshona Interview: So people can book sessions with me or groups with me. like last night I was sitting here going in like, Nope, that needs to be a day off. Nope. That needs to be a day off .
[00:13:52] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:13:53] Kyshona Interview: I'm starting to choose, like knowing if I'm coming back in town from tour, I need at least a full day of like sitting in silence in my house. And then the next day I can do a little work. Like I've, I, every now and then I'll try to go and do, community work the day after I get back in town and it's just, it's a struggle bus.
[00:14:12] Aaron: Yeah. We were just talking about this yesterday about like the reentry
[00:14:17] Kyshona Interview: Yeah,
[00:14:17] Aaron: In both directions. Both leaving for tour and that first day, day and a half on the road where you're like, okay, this is the head space I'm in. And then the, especially like the re-entry coming back home, for me it's like, it's like those moving sidewalks at the airport. ? You're on tour and you're cruising, All of a sudden like nothing. I wanna fall on my face cuz I land and I have all this adrenaline and I'm exhausted.
this is, This pre-parenthood Aaron talking there, there is no stopping at this point, but like I remember previously it just felt like skidding to a stop and it took me a second to adjust and a lot of times I would come out as depression. I'd get really down and really,, questioning all of my life choices.
You know, because as we all know, it's a grind out there on the road. So, I wasn't coming home rich, you know, especially just being a side man. So like coming home and having to get right back to it.
[00:15:03] Michaela: I mean, especially being a side man. Uh, I mean, he is married to an artist who would come home even less rich than the side people that she hired. ,
[00:15:10] Aaron: Yeah. Seen it.
[00:15:12] Michaela: But no, that feels, like something that comes with, with growing up and experience. B ut I've always taught private music lessons and I used to be crazy where I would come home from a tour, from like a 20 hour drive and go straight to teach five hours of lessons.
And now it's like what you said, , okay, I have this amount of time. Like I would never. Meals or even like going pee.
[00:15:35] Kyshona Interview Audio: Yep,
[00:15:35] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
And now I'm like, oh, I have to schedule time . My whole life growing up, my mom said the word regroup. I'd be like, oh, I wanna go to a friend right after school. No, you need to come home and we're gonna regroup and then you can go. And I always was like, why do we have to regroup?
And now , especially having a daughter, like,
oh, We need a regroup. . Yeah.
[00:15:59] Kyshona Interview: Yeah. Yeah need to come back to the center. Yeah.
[00:16:01] Aaron: Yeah. yeah. I mean, for me, , like,
you said, , that's really hard
to do, to kind of hit the brakes for a minute and be like, I need space. But it's so important and you hear it all the time. I feel like it's the cliche, you know, like making time for yourself, carving out space.
[00:16:16] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:16:17] Aaron: But, the older I get, the more I realize , oh, if I actually am intentional about making that space to regroup, I can get more done in the long run. If I zoom out, maybe like on a day-to-day, it doesn't look like I'm getting more done. Maybe on the day-to-day it looks like there's less trees in the forest, but if I zoom out, the forest is way bigger.
[00:16:35] Kyshona Interview: Yeah. Totally.
[00:16:35] Michaela: And the quality of your, of your time, of your performance, your therapy session, your lesson, whatever is so much better when you are not running on an empty
[00:16:46] Kyshona Interview: Mm-hmm. .Yeah. I've had a talk even with my booking agent and my management team, which is new to me. This is new, having a team. And it's funny cause the team has said it should not be as chaotic for you. We are here to make it easier, but I don't know how to hand over.
[00:17:04] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:05] Kyshona Interview: the things that I've been doing for years, I don't know how to delegate. I'm still working on that, but I did have a meeting with my agent last year, we had our quarterly, let's talk about goals. And I told her, I was like, I can only be out every other weekend. I can't do these two week full week runs. I can't do two to three week runs. It doesn't go well for me mentally.
So I would prefer if we can find thursday through Sunday runs. So that I'm not gone all the time, you know. And I have a mother who has Alzheimer's and so I need to make sure I'm always at least available, s o that I'm not just like out in the Midwest somewhere for weeks on end that I can always come back home for a moment.
Yeah. Um, , that has been super helpful. I think setting a boundary. Not only for myself, but for my management. My agent of this is how much time Kyshona can allow herself to be gone before things well for her,
[00:17:56] Michaela: And again, how challenging is To do that. And also what kind of relationship do you have? Because there's always that kind of scarcity mindset, fear of, well they make their money based on how much I'm working, so who's gonna wanna work with somebody who doesn't wanna just be out there constantly?
[00:18:16] Kyshona Interview: You know what I am. And for that reason, I feel so blessed to have the team that I do cause Lori's my agent and she'll often send something, she'll send an offer. She always sends offers and it's on me to say yes or no, but she'll let me know, like, I don't know. I'm looking at where you're coming from.
This doesn't like it. . I don't know if this is worth it. So it's like she's always giving me that permission of like, I'm, I'm just giving you the information you choose, but if I decide not to do anything, she's like, okay, it's fine. It'll come back around another, another time. She always says that to me like, they'll come back. We can book this another time. This isn't the last time we don't need a fret. Cuz I am of that mindset of like, oh no, people called me and I had to say no. That's how I felt canceling all my gigs in 2021. I thought people will never invite me back, and she had me in those rooms this past year, you know?
So just having someone that says your worth isn't based on if you show up right away. Like your worth is really based on how, like, how much have you, what am I trying to say? If you are here, you are worthy of time and space and healing time.
[00:19:23] Aaron: That's so amazing. Can you, , who is your agent? Just give her a shout out.
Shout out , because that's amazing because
[00:19:27] Michaela: not, not all booking agents are like that.
[00:19:30] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:19:31] Kyshona Interview Audio: Lori Peters at concerted Efforts.
she's great.
[00:19:33] Aaron: something I think about all the time, about the industry side kind of for its entire history. They've somehow made artists feel like they, the artists are begging for these people to sign them so that we can give away 20 to 40 of what our business makes.
They don't exist without us, but somehow we scratch and climb and lower our own. values to meet. and sacrifice health and all of that. And so power to her.
[00:20:02] Michaela: Yeah. And I think also are even like, The most well-intentioned, they still are sitting in their office behind a screen going on Google Maps, but they don't have the real, some of them do, but not all of them have the real life reference of what is it like to sit in a van for this many hours and then play this long of a show - load in, load out, sell your merch, sleep for four hours, you know? And some of them you have to be like, hello? Do
Like, what are you asking? I just remember we had, I think one of the last tours before the pandemic. We were playing in, and I'll keep this very vague cuz I'm not throwing anybody under the bus cuz I love the people I work with and I still work with them.
But we played a gig in Dallas, Texas on Saturday night and it was a late gig, so I think we were like playing until midnight or something, and. Then there was an opportunity to, be on a radio station in Los Angeles on Monday morning, and I was asked if we could start driving directly after the gig on Saturday night in Dallas, and get to LA by a Monday morning to sing on air by nine. And I was like, are you buying us a bag of cocaine? Like what?
I was like, absolutely not.
like,
[00:21:30] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Aaron: So needless to say, Michaela did the radio show. She just, I flew, she bought a flight from Dallas the next morning and the band, we made it from Dallas to Los Angeles like a day and a
[00:21:42] Kyshona Interview Audio: Oh my gosh. That's scary.
[00:21:44] Aaron: There were four of us. Everybody was cool. Everybody was on board. Everybody drove, which is like a really
[00:21:49] Kyshona Interview: That's great.
[00:21:50] Aaron: but, you know, and luckily once we got to Los Angeles, we were there for a couple days so we could, you know, rest stand upright .
[00:21:57] Michaela: Yeah. That was hilarious. I was just like, you're outta your damn mind. No
[00:22:02] Kyshona Interview: And see this is something that I've seen happen. Even so with, with Lori, if something like that comes up where another opportunity comes up, she's like, we need to do that. Let me go talk to these other people. They can be mad at me. So she is fine being the bad guy and canceling shit so that Kyshona can get to this other thing that, I don't wanna say it's better, but it's something that could be more. Helpful at the time, know,
[00:22:29] Aaron: Seems like she has, a great overview of everything. She's playing the long game. she's, in an airplane at 30,000 feet looking over everything rather than like being in the traffic
[00:22:38] Kyshona Interview: Yeah, totally. And I am, I'm grateful my whole team is like that. My management's the same way. The fact that I could go to them and Michelle is my manager and she's come over to my house, be like, Hey, we need to have a meeting.
[00:22:51] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:51] Kyshona Interview: We need to have a regroup. You just like, but it's nothing about the business. It's just, how are you, are you okay? I know a lot just happened. Are you okay? She's even contacted me like I think it was. Right before the new year, she called, we were having a meeting and she basically was like, Hey, it looks chaotic. Like people say we look, but she's like, it feels, it's feeling a little chaotic. Is it feeling chaotic to you? I'm I don't know what maybe, you but for her to say like, let's, let's, let's work this out. She'll even go into my calendar and be like, you're gonna take these days off,
[00:23:24] Michaela: Yeah. That's great.
[00:23:25] Kyshona Interview: I'm grateful to have a team that sees me and knows that I will run myself down for others. That has given me the permission to also, I'm like, if they're gonna pay attention to what my body needs, I gotta listen to, you know? And so when I'm home, I'm often sitting in silence. I don't play music , I don't watch TV really.
I think I came home on Sunday maybe. I don't know. Or maybe it was early Monday and I have been sitting in silent since then. Like I might listen to a podcast, but it's just like, that's kind of what my, I need. There's been so much simulation. I just have this many days of just silently walking around talking to the cat,
[00:24:07] Michaela: Yeah. Yes.
[00:24:08] Kyshona Interview: just Yeah. reading a book, you know,
[00:24:10] Aaron: Not to bring up parenthood all the time, but you know, I see that in our daughter. She's 19 months old and we'll be at a party and she has a great time. There's all this energy around, and we'll get in the van to leave, and, 30 seconds later she just starts crying and it's like, maybe it's cuz she's leaving, but it's it, I see it across the board. It's just shedding that energy.
[00:24:28] Kyshona Interview: Yes and your daughter is such a. I feel an extrovert that way, you know? And yeah, I mean, that is me, like getting in the car after shows is just pure silence of like, whew, the comedown. How do you shed, I do a lot of crying as well. Yeah.
[00:24:46] Michaela: Yeah, it helps!
[00:24:47] Kyshona Interview: It does help, yeah.
[00:24:49] Aaron: Coming from being a music therapist, do some of the practices that you, I guess it's twofold, some of the practices that you use with your patients there, do you use them on yourself? And then also do you notice that, the techniques you have to kind of, I don't know a better way to say it, but to, to compartmentalize that work. And the heavy lifting of that? Does that translate over to the heavy lifting of performing?
[00:25:10] Kyshona Interview: Mm-hmm. . Okay. First part of the question was, do I use any of the tools that I use with my clients? Not always,
[00:25:18] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:19] Kyshona Interview: you know, and that's something that I realize every time when I'm in the, when I'm face-to-face with a client or with a group. , I'm like, I should do this . So I often do it with them, like a lot of it is, journaling, just brain dump, you know, and I'll have seasons where I will sit down every morning and just like, just pen to paper, get everything outta the brain.
That to me is like, I can go back through and find, okay, this is really what's going on today, so let's focus on this. Meditation. I do like breathing exercises. I will do that some box breathing. If I find that I'm anxious, I'll do box breathing. I'll do.
[00:25:56] Michaela: What's box breathing??
[00:25:58] Kyshona Interview: Like, um, inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four. You know, , hold for four, inhale for four. Or some people call it triangle breathing, where you hold longer than the exhale or vice versa.
So I'll do some of that and I'll do, even, I don't know what the correct term is, but I've practiced this in meditation though too, where it's listening, but you're listening, you're listening in layers. So as you're focusing, you're like, what's the closest sound I hear? And then you go to like, what's the furthest away sound that I hear?
And then like zoning back in. So I'll do that, kind of just sit. I think that's what I'm doing mostly when I'm sitting at home in silence, honestly doing that. Like what's the closest thing I hear? I hear the hum of the refrigerator. Like right now there's a bird outside of my window.
[00:26:45] Aaron: Mm.
[00:26:46] Kyshona Interview Audio: and then I hear a truck going down, you know, so it's that kind of,
[00:26:49] Aaron: I use that same thing and it's, it's a really nice thing, that I can, you can kinda like flash, you know? It's like you can be, hate say, but you can be in a conversation and I feel anxious or I feel competitive or I just don't feel right. You know, and, and it's something that I can check real quick. It's like, an aural body scan in a way. It's like, where am I?
[00:27:09] Kyshona Interview: Exactly. .mm-hmm. And that's the exact reason, because I find that I'm doing that when my brain starts to go off on all the things on the to-do list that I need to do, or if I'm worrying about something, then it's like, you are here in this moment right now. How can we, how can you be present right now in this moment? And I'll do the little like aural, scan box breathing,
[00:27:29] Aaron: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:29] Kyshona Interview Audio: make a little coffee,
[00:27:30] Aaron: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
[00:27:31] Kyshona Interview: and then
[00:27:32] Aaron: Yeah. Sam Harris, who has a podcast, and also a meditation app. And is, talks a lot about, presence and consciousness. Um, talks a lot about, listening at different depths because you can't, you have absolutely no control over the sounds you're hearing. You can't make them arrive any faster. You can't change what they are. You can only be completely present when you're focusing on the hearing and it's, I think it's really powerful.
[00:27:57] Kyshona Interview Audio: Yeah. I'm very rarely present. I feel I'm always somewhere else, and so that's my way of being like, come here in this body right now, in this moment. Um, yeah, and I think you asked another question about the heavy lifting of.
[00:28:10] Aaron: Yeah. We've talked a little bit about the heavy lifting of being on stage and carrying the energy of the room and, and all of that. And obviously , being a therapist is also heavy lifting. Do you see parallels in the way that you, process, those times of heavy lifting.
[00:28:26] Kyshona Interview: I find that something that we've done in the past year since your song has come to full fruition is I've asked my team to make sure that I always as much as possible if I can have a day that I'm in the community where I'm touring, doing a your song music therapy session, therapeutic songwriting session, because for me, that is recharging, that recharges me. When I can give back to the community a different way and like give them power. It's that same of like when I set up, like on stage I'm holding the energy of the room. It's, it's very similar at the very beginning of my therapeutic songwriting groups. But after a while, like once everyone feels comfortable and I've established the energy of the room of like, this is collaborative, then I find I am, I can sit back and I just let them go. And that to me is like, alright, I, I can, I'm not controlling the energy, the energy is going. I can redirect it, you know, I can guide it, but I don't have to hold it all the time. I can take my hands off of it. And, and that to me, has helped when I'm on the road touring to have moments of like, to have therapeutic moments with the community. Because then also I feel like it does make me be, be present as well in the location that I am. A lot of times, like I don't remember where I've been, it's just the road,
Right. If somebody's like, what's your favorite room you've played? I'm like, I don't, I have them, but I don't remember when that was or was that that town?
Or, you know, what city was I in? Um, so when I am, when I am given the opportunities, To write with people in the community and, and usually it's with people who are in recovery or with youth, even if it's before I come to the show, come to do a show in their town, my hope is always to be able to bring them on stage at a time to perform whatever song we've written together.
Especially if I've met with them previously virtually. And that to me is like, alright, I don't have to hold up this whole room. I just gotta hold up the 12 of y'all or the three of y'all. I don't. And, and it's like, y'all can shine. And I'm just the back person. This is like my dream of being a rhythm guitarist in a band.
You know?
[00:30:44] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:45] Kyshona Interview: that dream
[00:30:46] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:30:47] Kyshona Interview: You know, I'm like, I'm not leading anything. I'm just supporting these voices in front of me. So, I think I've had to find a way to mesh artist Kyshona and music therapist, Kyshona Armstrong,
[00:31:00] Michaela: Yeah. Listening to you talk and, thinking back to what you were talking about when, with your trio, that you want like moments on stage where you can step back and you said, the way that you framed it was not so that I can have a, a break, i t was you said, so they can shine and I can receive.
Mm-hmm.
[00:31:21] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:31:21] Michaela: And I feel like artists, we all have a different why. A lot of us might overlap, you know, the reasons why we're performers or writers, but it's all kind of weighed differently for each of us, and I think some people really are, you know, classic performers, exhibitionist, like thrive off of like being seen. And being about them and I think something that's detrimental is and a a point of this podcast is like kind of trying to break these ideas of the one way to be an artist. The one way to be a performer. And I'm really hearing from you that your artistry seems rooted in service.
[00:32:03] Kyshona Interview: Absolutely. My mission statement for myself, which is I guess also my artist's statement, and it's still true. I've been working on kind of reframing it, but it's to be a voice and a vessel for those who feel lost, forgotten, silenced, who are hurting. So anytime I'm walking on any stage, I have that mission in mind.
A prayer that me and the ladies always say is like, it's not about. . So before I walk on the stage, we all, we make sure we touch and agree. So we have our hands on one another. We deep breathe together and we say it's not about us. May we receive from the room what we shall receive and get us out of the way of whatever message needs to be given to the audience in this moment.
You know? So that, that's one way of say for me to say like, you don't have to go out here and perform. You just need to be the vessel. That's it. This isn't you performing, you're just being a vessel. And so in everything that I do, . Anytime that I have the opportunity to shine a light on someone else, that refuels me.
Cause I am being of service. I'm showing someone the importance of their voice. I'm showing a group of people that their words are important and that the words that just come out of their mouth or that they write in a journal can be lyrics and can help someone else. So those are the things that I think have really kept me from getting bogged down in the music industry and in the what deems you successful? I'm like, I can't. I won't make it. If I'm living by their success standards, I know that there's a healing quality to music, and if that is like the level of success I have is like this. I'm just going from town to town, being a voice in a vessel and then helping others write their own story and then sharing that, I'm fine.
[00:33:48] Michaela: Yeah.
[00:33:49] Kyshona Interview: As long as I can pay my bills.
[00:33:50] Aaron: Yeah. I . Yeah, I, I love that because a) I'm a strong proponent of mission statements, artistic statements, whatever. It's just like, even if you don't ever share it with somebody just so you have a nucleus that you can check back to you,
[00:34:04] Kyshona Interview: Yep.
[00:34:05] Aaron: I've, I have been working with it probably about like the last five years. I was like, oh, I gotcha. And, and I always relate kind of, everything I do back to that and , a) it makes decision making a lot easier for me, but it also is just a way for me to check in and make sure I'm on the, the right path, you know?
So I love hearing that. And then secondly, I love that you are able to define what success is for you and for yourself on your own terms, rather than looking around at the industry and being like, well, I guess that's what success is.
You know, I would imagine that has a grounding effect.
[00:34:38] Kyshona Interview: It totally does. And the fact that even my team knows my mission and they know what things fit for me and what I'll probably not be into. So, it helped when we were releasing new music last year, cause , you you know, I was feeling anxious. I was like, listen, my last record, my last full record was called Listen.
And like I was like, it's over. It came out in the pandemic. Nobody got to experience the way that I had hoped. It still did good work. So then it was, you know, 2021 and 22. What are you gonna put out? What new music do you have? I'm like, I was in a pandemic. I couldn't write anything.
What do you mean?!?
[00:35:14] Aaron: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:15] Kyshona Interview: I'm still healing, so I had a bunch of songs that I felt had, they had their own mission. They, they matched my mission and I knew that they could do good. It was a message that needed to be out in the world, so my manager and I were just like, fuck it.
We, it's not about the industry. These songs need to come out. Let's just put 'em out and. It fit because it is totally Kyshona's like one of them was called Rise the Tide, you know? Um, meaning rising tides, lift all ships, you know? Thank you. Uh, rising tide lift all ships. And then we had another one Out Loud.
When you have fears that you're dealing with, like speak them out loud. A lot of us don't use our voice. This is also for me, you know. And then another one, Do What Feeds Your Soul. So these are all songs. I was like, these are messages that need to be heard right now, especially as everybody's reentering and like reacclimating to this society that we're in now with everything going on. But I found that the moment we were just true to Kyshona and like what feels good and what really fits my own mission. The music still got all the loving, you know, it still reached the people it was supposed to reach.
And the way that they do music now, it will still continue to reach people even 10 years from now.
[00:36:30] Michaela: Do What Feeds Your Soul that's, you guys made that one together.
[00:36:32] Kyshona Interview: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:32] Michaela: You recorded that one together, right? Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
[00:36:34] Kyshona Interview: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:34] Michaela: I love that one..
[00:36:35] Aaron: You were saying that the way music is now, those songs will continue to be heard and feed people. And that again I'm a strong proponent of that. Like if you are writing and recording your art, in integrity. You know, like really defining what your vision is, what, why you're making this art and why you're putting it out there. it is timeless.
[00:36:55] Kyshona Interview: Exactly. We are still discovering music from vinyl, you know what I mean? We're still discovering music from artists that existed a long time ago. So I have this comfort in knowing it might not hit now, but maybe I'll be like, like Eva Cassidy, you know, after I'm long gone, people will find these
[00:37:14] Michaela: We all love Eva Cassidy.
[00:37:17] Kyshona Interview: Right. My dad was so mad, it was like years ago, but when I told him, I was like, dad, listen to this artist. I think it was the love actually, uh, movie when it came out. And I was like, listen to this woman's voice. He fell in love. He was on YouTube and then he called me like, you ain't tell me she wasn't here no more. He was so angry he couldn't, I know he was so upset he couldn't go see her live, but I was like, but dad, people are still releasing her music. Her band mates are still.
like
[00:37:43] Michaela: mm-hmm.
[00:37:44] Kyshona Interview: Working on and like telling her story. And to me, I want to leave a legacy like that, or not about me, but knowing that the songs that I'm helping people write, even if it's their own, the only song that they write, you know, through Your Song, I'm helping people tell their story. I just wrote this song yesterday with Aaron Lee Tasjan called, what's in a name.
[00:38:07] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:08] Kyshona Interview: And we were talking about the importance of a name and there was a quote he heard where uh, it was said, your name is your currency. Right? And so I hope, if anything, I don't need people to know what I did or who I was, but if it's when somebody sings their own original song, you know, that they wrote with me through Your Song, if they can just like, Kyshona Armstrong, help with that, like that to me is enough. Like, oh, I wrote this with this music therapist in Nashville. Her name's Kyshona. That's fine. That's enough. You know, that to me is my legacy of just helping plant all these little seeds around because they're gonna go off and maybe help someone else write their own thing.
They're gonna go off and continue to tell their story to help other people heal. And if I am just but a seed in the start of their journey, that to me is plenty of success.
[00:38:55] Michaela: So my question is this mission your artist's mission, how has that, have you been someone who's just inherently known yourself, or have you had to really work to develop this?
And I am selfishly asking this because I am one, I'm a Gemini and I'm a military kid, so I grew up moving every other year and I feel like my socialized survival skill that I learned was to be a chameleon. And I feel like I've spent my whole adult life and still do of being like, this is what I want. No, is this what I want? No, this is what I want. Oh, but should I go over here? No. This is what I want. And like it's so much work for me to stay centered in my why and my path. So when I listen to you talk, I'm like, oh my gosh, she's so grounded. Does it take work for you to stay there? And did it take work for you to get there?
[00:39:50] Kyshona Interview: I feel like it takes work to stay there, to get here. I do sometimes I think it's because of how I walked into the music industry. I practiced music therapy for over 15 years, first. . I wasn't a songwriter, I came to Nashville having, like, played the college market, you know, and that was my break from music therapy. I was like, I'll just go tour for a little bit and maybe back. I wandered for a while. I'm also 42. about to be 43 next month. So like, you know, I feel like I've had a couple lives, and if anything it's, I was wandering a lot in the beginning because I didn't know if I should be a music therapist or a songwriter.
I thought she had to be either or. And I feel like in the last seven years it's been a understanding of like, no, you can be all things. You can be everything. So the thing. Kept me from wandering and shifting my focus was having a mission statement
[00:40:53] Michaela: Hmm.
[00:40:53] Kyshona Interview: That is something that has kept me centered cause when I find that I'm, I'm beginning to wander and look over at that shiny ball over there. I'm like, Nope, your mission is this is your mission. And knowing that my mission, my my mission statement can change, you know? But I really do feel like when a, a crew of friends and I, we all sat down years ago and we were like, we need mission statements and all of us use it. That's how we, that's how we measure our success. Meaning like, at the end of a show, even if only five people were there. If one person says, oh my gosh, this song struck me. I've been going through whatever. Then in my head I'm like, mission accomplished. I was a voice in a vessel for someone who felt lost, forgotten, silenced, or hurting, you know? So, I think having a statement for myself of what's important in like the why of why I do this has kept me in line.
Kept me from going where everybody's like, don't you wanna go be the, don't you wanna go do this thing? Don't you wanna go tour for a month with this person? And I have to like sit and like, do I do the gut check and I do the mission check and if it doesn't fit, then the answer is like, no, I'm okay or can I do half of that?
[00:42:02] Michaela: Yeah. .Yeah.
[00:42:05] Kyshona Interview: I don't wanna do all of it. Can I do like a couple of it, like a couple days?
[00:42:08] Aaron: Yep. Yeah. Because then you keep space for the other things.
[00:42:13] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:42:13] Aaron: You know, for the things that do matter, the things that do attach to that mission statement. And the things that do , fulfill and put fuel in your tank or keep fuel in your tank to,
[00:42:22] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:42:22] Aaron: going and keep doing things.
[00:42:24] Kyshona Interview: What's the thing that you've been looking over at Michaela of like, oh, should I go do that? Do I wanna
[00:42:30] Michaela: Oh my gosh, what am I not looking at? ,
[00:42:34] Aaron: She means, what is it this week?
[00:42:37] Michaela: Yeah. It's, I mean, both Aaron, my husband and my brother have compared me and not unkindly, but to a, a dog chasing a tennis ball now I'm learning how to manage it, but also I look at it as it's not an annoying part of my personality, but it's like I'm just, so, when I'm in a good place, I'm so excited by life, I'm so excited by what you could do and what you could be and what you could see. And I get so overwhelmed by everything I wanna do and see that it's so hard for me to focus. You know, sometimes I'm like, no, what I need to be doing is, being home and, and being a songwriting coach and voice coach and writing my songs and being, you know, healing. And then the other time I'm like, no, I need to be out partying and traveling the world and on my own and like, I need to be a honky tonk queen.
It's like, no, that's not you, and I have tried that on at different, times, I've tried on lots of different, if you're on my personal Facebook page on all my photo albums that I've made private, uh, you could see some deep dive. I've, you know, I was a, Yeah.
I was a Gogo dancer in Queens, New York. When I was right outta college, I worked an office job. I used to go to like clubbing and dancing and That was like,
When Aaron and I met, I was like wearing like thigh high pleather boots and like straightened my hair and like knew all the promoters in Manhattan and like,
[00:44:11] Kyshona Interview: Oh my gosh, I love this.
[00:44:13] Michaela: Yeah, . And then I started wearing Birkenstocks and
[00:44:17] Aaron: And we have diffusers in every room of our house.
[00:44:20] Kyshona Interview: Crystals.
[00:44:21] Michaela: Yeah, but I encompassed, but that was also, that was also a part of me, like from a very young age as a child. Um, so I have all of it. and I used to think, what's wrong with me?
[00:44:32] Kyshona Interview: Nothing. You're an artist. You're a creative. That's all it is. And I think that's something we as creatives have is our brains are always turning, we're always seeing ideas in something. I'm a Pisces, I don't know what that means other than, like, I am a daydreamer. I am a dreamer, but also I'm this person where I'm like, you tell me an idea you have, I will run with it.
I will have the business plan for you. I'll be like, Ooh, you could also do the, but it's just ideas. I'm the idea person. Um, don't ask me to like follow through with
[00:45:03] Michaela: That's where you need Aaron to come in, the virgo.
[00:45:05] Kyshona Interview: Exactly. Exactly. But if you ideas, the amount of businesses I've created in my mind in the past three years is amazing. But I think that's just who we are as creatives.
Our brains are always, trying to find ways of like, Ooh, I could also go be in this world for a minute. Cuz those are also lessons, those are also stories we can use for our artistry later. So I don't say anything wrong with that. I think, as long as you have a mission and a why so that you can come back to center.
You know, like why am I gonna go explore that? Is there a reason I'm gonna go explore it? There are things I've done. , like going on the road opening for whomever, where it's always been like, I'm gonna go and learn. I always take it as a learning experience and I'll be like, mm-hmm. I don't want that , Yes, but it's enough for me to be like, mm-hmm. That that, that was fun for a minute.
[00:45:56] Michaela: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've, I've learned that my why is connection. That I love people and I love connecting with all different types of people. And I think that's why I've tried on so many different types of lives. Like I get to learn about so many different kinds of people.
Like how boring to just be in one lane your whole life or stay in one place. I'm like, no.
[00:46:22] Kyshona Interview: Yeah.
[00:46:23] Michaela: But it also tortures me. .
[00:46:24] Kyshona Interview: Mm, that tortured soul. Yeah,
[00:46:27] Michaela: But now you're turning your therapy roll onto me.
[00:46:30] Kyshona Interview: I did! I turned it onto you!
[00:46:31] Aaron: I love it. It was so seamless.
[00:46:36] Kyshona Interview: It's Like, yes. So these are what co-writes are like for people, . But I was like, how did I end up in therapy? I don't know. We're just writing a song. But
[00:46:44] Michaela: Mm-hmm. ..But this is also why. Aaron had the idea, I've wanted to do a podcast since like 2017, but again, could never decide on like what the topic is and how to organize it. And Aaron was like, I think I wanna do a podcast and I think I wanted to be about this. And I was like, ah. let me in And then I sit here and we've only done a couple, but like already with you. I'm like
looking at the clock of like, okay, we have to wrap up. But I'm like, I have so many more questions I wanna ask Kyshona. So we have to have you back cuz we've like barely scratched the surface.
Also, we just have to have you over because. I texted you this, but you taught Georgia our daughter to pound it,
[00:47:22] Kyshona Interview: Fist bump.
[00:47:23] Michaela: Literally, she, she gives high fives and she'll just give a high five to whoever's close by. But with the pound, for some reason it's like every single person in the room, even. Inanimate objects. Like Yep, you get a pound candle. Oh yeah. You get a pound.
[00:47:39] Aaron: Yep. once she starts, that's what you're doing for the next few minutes.
[00:47:42] Michaela: Hey like a stranger. Come over here.
[00:47:44] Kyshona Interview: Yes. Aw, that's my legacy.
[00:47:48] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:47:48] Kyshona Interview: Thank you.
[00:47:48] Michaela: She also loves you. Every time she's seen you at a party, she's like, go straight to you.
[00:47:54] Aaron: Before we part ways. Is there someplace you wanna send people that want to learn more about you? Is it social media? Is it your website? Where can people find out more?
[00:48:02] Kyshona Interview: Yeah, I think people, people can go to kyshona.com, K Y S H O N a.com, and that'll also, there's a page there as well that'll take them to my organization, Your Song, if they kind of wanna see what I was speaking of as far like helping other people write their story and their truth.
[00:48:20] Michaela: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:21] Aaron: Yeah. Well, thank you for spending your morning with us and talking with us.
[00:48:24] Kyshona Interview Audio: Thank you. Thank you.