The Watson Twins have released multiple records, including their latest 'Holler' produced by Butch Walker, as well as being featured on Jenny Lewis' Rabbit Fur Coat and recording/touring with the likes of Kings of Leon, Foster the People, The Shins, Harry Connick Jr, Willie Nelson, and Jenny Lewis. We go deep on sustainable and enduring touring practices and logistics that they've both observed as sidewomen, and developed themselves as bandleaders, as well collaboration vs individualization and using your talents and skillsets developed in the music industry to launch other businesses (they own and run three event spaces in Nashville).
The Watson Twins have released multiple records, including their latest 'Holler' produced by Butch Walker, as well as being featured on Jenny Lewis' Rabbit Fur Coat and recording/touring with the likes of Kings of Leon, Foster the People, The Shins, Harry Connick Jr, Willie Nelson, and Jenny Lewis. We go deep on sustainable and enduring touring practices and logistics that they've both observed as sidewomen, and developed themselves as bandleaders, as well collaboration vs individualization and using your talents and skillsets developed in the music industry to launch other businesses (they own and run three event spaces in Nashville).
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All music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:00] Aaron: Hey, and welcome to this week's episode of The Other 22 Hours Podcast.
I'm your host, Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
[00:00:04] Michaela: And I'm your other host, Michaela Anne. And since this show is not even a year old, we really want to Thank you so much for being here. If you're a returning listener, thank you for coming back. If you are brand new to us, thank you for
[00:00:15] Aaron: checking it out. Yeah, we know there are thousands or maybe even millions of podcasts out there to choose from.
So we're really humbled that we have so many people that come back and listen to multiple episodes. Chances are you found out about our podcast via word of mouth or social media, or maybe somebody in your band was playing it in the van. However you heard about us, if you could just Pass it on the same way.
Text your favorite episode to a friend, sneak it on in the van when it's your driving duties, whatever it might be. We are a show that prides ourselves on our community. McKim and I are lifers in the music industry. And We want to lead these conversations with other artists to help our community as a whole, and as the tide rises, so do all the ships.
So, If you could do your little part to pass that on, the more listeners we get, the more guests we can get, and the more ideas we can share with everybody. Yeah, and
[00:01:00] Michaela: we're not your typical music promo show. We're not trying to promote artists latest records, their latest tours, though we do talk about those things.
But the focus of our conversation... is the behind the scenes nitty gritty of what people do to keep going. What are some of the tools and routines they've found helpful in staying inspired, creative and sane while building a career
[00:01:22] Aaron: around their art? Yeah. And as we talk with today's guests, there is a lot in this industry that is outside of our control. so, we wanted to focus on what is within our control, our mindsets, our intentions, our creativity, our organizational skills, very much so. And so with that in mind, we decided to invite some of our friends and some of our favorite artists onto the show and ask them the general question, what do you do to create sustainability in your life so that you can sustain your creativity? And today's guests are the Watson Twins. The
[00:01:53] Michaela: Watson Twins are, as their name suggests, twin sisters, originally from Louisville, Kentucky.
Spent a lot of time in LA and now have called Nashville, home for several years. They have many of their own solo records and have also been backup singers for Jenny Lewis, Harry Connick Jr., Kings of Leon, Foster the people.
Willie Nelson, Margo Price, just to name a few.
[00:02:16] Aaron: Yeah, huge list of artists.
And they have a really great mindset about the whole thing. very based in community and togetherness and working together. As they say. They have been collaborating since conception. I don't know if they want us to share that, but it's on there now. It was debatable
[00:02:33] Michaela: If it was too weird
[00:02:34] Aaron: or not, but if you can imagine, they shared a woman.
So it has been a collaborative existence for the two of them for their entire life, and they share that, in their work with other artists, they share that in their work as front women and band leaders, and they also share that in their other businesses. They own and run 3 event spaces here in Nashville.
And so we get to talk about that diversification.
[00:02:55] Michaela: I think this was the heaviest tour conversation we've had. I would say so. Yeah, the logistics of especially van touring, of how to take care of a band, helpful hints Which I think I would have really appreciated knowing when I was first starting out touring so I think this was a really essential conversation
[00:03:11] Aaron: Yeah So many like actionable nuggets in here they just have such a great really grounded positive on things with a lot of gratitude and a lot of appreciation for what is going on.
There's a lot of, using the language like we get to do this versus we have to do this, I
[00:03:27] Michaela: also really liked the differentiation between gut check and ego check as well as the focus on not focusing so much on our individuality, which is contrary to a lot of greater cultural influences.
[00:03:39] Aaron: Yeah. So this is another one of our episodes that has a little bit of a technical glitch at the end and it just kind of cuts short. So such is life, one thing that I really wanted to get back to that we didn't have a chance because the internet decided it wanted to do something else today.
But, Chandra says that the music industry doesn't Equal a plus b equals c. It's unpredictable. We all know that. But she did point out what is predictable is when you continue to do things that are soul sucking and that do not feel right. Gigs, tours, whatever it is that doesn't feel right and in line with who you are as an artist, that inevitably is A plus B equals C, and that you will burn out.
You'll feel deflated. And that's just so beautiful. It's something that I think we all know, but just like putting that to words is really nice. With that, we'll be back at the end of the show to wrap it up properly. But for now, here's our conversation with the Watson twins.
[00:04:26] The Watson Twins: When Karen brought it up, we were like, we know them.
Yeah. Yeah.
she was like, is there anything off limits that, you know, you shouldn't talk about? We're like, no,
[00:04:34] Aaron: Yeah. It's funny. We get pitched by publicist sometimes and we get like the full on very pro pitch and we're like, cool. Yeah. We'll just text with them. It's cool. Thanks though.
[00:04:41] The Watson Twins: Yeah, I imagine that happens to you guys a lot because you guys know everybody. Or a lot of people.
[00:04:45] Aaron: Yeah,
[00:04:46] Michaela: It's been funny. And also now we're getting to know a lot of publicists.
So,
[00:04:50] The Watson Twins: yeah, That's not necessarily a bad thing.
[00:04:53] Aaron: no, it was also pretty amazing. Like it was pretty immediate. after we released the first of episodes, we just started getting emails every week from publicists and we're like, wow, these people really are on it.
At least we're not paying them like thousands of dollars a month for absolutely nothing. Like, That's great.
[00:05:08] Michaela: But the interesting aspect is like the whole tag and description of this podcast is we're like, we're the anti album cycle podcast. we're not like promoting records and publicists work album cycles.
So they're like, but their album and we're like, that's great. But We're not going to talk about their album.
[00:05:27] The Watson Twins: That's not what we're doing right now.
Yeah,
[00:05:29] Michaela: It inadvertently promotes people's records because it introduces, people and I, I feel like as an artist who's done a lot of interviews, I would rather do this type of stuff that's deeper and like fans can actually get to know you in a different way rather than just how'd you make the record?
Where'd you make the record?
[00:05:49] The Watson Twins: And I think that's where, a lot of this stuff is going as like how we connect with fans is not necessarily through the music anymore. It's through being a person and, finding that, thing that connects you to another person and it doesn't matter, friend, fan, family, peer, whatever.
It's really about how we connect in that way for sure.
Yeah,
[00:06:10] Michaela: it's funny. It's weird because I feel like in some cases the music is almost a byproduct of becoming a fan of a musician because you connect with their like public persona or what they stand for. And then there's so many people that I follow on Instagram and I'm like, have I listened to their songs though?
I
[00:06:29] The Watson Twins: I didn't know anything about Butch Walker until we became friends and you have a record, but it's then of course, listening to his music and, working with him on his last record, it was like, I'm a huge fan. I just think an amazing person, but he's also an amazing songwriter and singer and guitar player.
And I think this goes back to what this podcast is about, which is the other 22 hours. It's like when we talk about going on tour. It's really important who's in the band, there's only 45 minutes that we're on stage together. So even if they're like a rad player, if they don't vibe or have a bad attitude, that can really like sour the whole experience, you know?
And so, and I think that's something that talk about, but also that people don't realize how important that is because you, take that on stage with you.
so that's why really trying to find your program, as they say, on the, those other times, like we can all rehearse and play the songs and be perfectionists around technicality of the music, but ultimately it's those other moments that really are, our pre show game that get us to, you
[00:07:35] Aaron: Yeah. and when the band like really vibes in the van offstage and all that, you feel that in the music, you feel that connection, you feel that energy on stage and it's more inviting for me Having done this for years and seen the sausage made enough like I can tell you know When you go to see a band, you're like, yeah
[00:07:53] The Watson Twins: That Yeah, and it's
[00:07:56] Michaela: weird I feel like for those of us that have been doing this a long time, when you like look at it from a non musician perspective of like how insane it actually is that you gather five people that you're all like working together, but you literally spend 24 seven together for several weeks, sitting side by side, sharing every meal, sometimes sleeping in the same bed in your younger days.
And it's yeah. Pretty insane, and not healthy, so...
[00:08:24] The Watson Twins: oftentimes look at each other and we're like, we have a really weird job. We have a very weird job. I mean like, And we get paid to do this, which is even more bizarre, you know? we drive around with people we know and we take our instruments around and we perform for one hour.
And then the rest of the time we're eating, sleeping, laughing in silence, all of the things, listening to podcasts.
[00:08:46] Aaron: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I
[00:08:48] Michaela: feel like looking back when I was younger, I would just be like, what bass player can we get? Who's willing to come for shit pay and like, now it feels so intimate Luckily when Aaron tours with me, it's only been like close friends the last few years, which has been really nice,
[00:09:03] The Watson Twins: That's amazing. Yeah.
or a friend of a friend's, to keep it in the family and always a recommendation. And, that has served us well, for sure.
Yeah.
[00:09:12] Michaela: Aren't you guys about to play a show together?
[00:09:14] The Watson Twins: We are about to play a show together.
[00:09:16] Michaela: I was like, isn't Aaron about to be in your van?
[00:09:19] The Watson Twins: Yes.
[00:09:20] Aaron: audition right now, actually,
[00:09:21] The Watson Twins: we make a really good impression in this interview. Just kidding.
[00:09:24] Aaron: That's funny, I've been thinking the same thing. I'm like, I better not say anything or I'll hold my tongue.
[00:09:27] The Watson Twins: you're already jumped in. Yeah. We already know all your people. It's fine.
[00:09:30] Aaron: I mean, band is all old friends and
[00:09:33] The Watson Twins: Yeah. And in talking about you guys touring together, it's like we have the same thing, which I think, you have that bond together, that we look after each other when we're on the road and, just in trying to support.
Other, there's not a lot of people who have that. And I feel very fortunate that we're able to do music together and to take care of each other, when the other one's exhausted or lost their voice or, whatever sort of, personal challenge comes up. There's someone else to talk through with and also carry the load of being the band leaders, you know. cause that's the other part of the other 22 hours that people don't think about too, which is there's all of those other difficult moments that happen where it's like, okay, flat tires and, someone is sick in the van or somebody just had a fight with a loved one at home or something like that happened.
And, it's humans being human.
mm-hmm. 22 hours too. It's not just like, Oh, and all we do is listen to music and have great conversations. there's a whole life that they bring with them in the band as well. I think as being female band leaders and front women we got into this really deep conversation with our band on the last tour.
About relationships and I'm looking at the three guys in the van and I'm like, would you have had this conversation if there were two guys sitting here driving you and two male front people?
Would you have had the same conversation? And they were like, we might've had a version of this conversation, but it wouldn't have been the same. again, the cool thing about the dynamic is it really is this weird ecosystem. Of personalities and experiences and you're all moving towards one goal, which is to try and get safely to your next destination, to potentially have some fun, to potentially eat something delicious and play a show and hopefully get some sleep and do it all over again.
Yeah.
[00:11:21] Aaron: Yeah. we usually talk to people. A year from now in your situation, you Your record just came out like in the last few months,
[00:11:27] The Watson Twins: Yes. Yeah. At the end of June. Yeah. We started touring and setting it up in April. So we've been touring quite a bit since.
[00:11:35] Aaron: How has that been getting back into touring and being the front people and
[00:11:40] The Watson Twins: Yeah, I think, just getting through COVID and coming out the other side of that, I think there was definitely as, you know, some trepidation about, getting back to doing that work in that way. But we have a really great record that we love and, a big part of our job is to make the music and then.
The second part of that is to get out there and share it with people and when you have a record like Holler Where we're going out and we're seeing people's faces light up and we're seeing people Sing along to the songs and be excited about the music It's a very joyful record we made it live in the studio with our touring band.
And so there was a real Intimacy and familial connection when we made them the record and so we're carrying that on in these live shows. And I think that, there was trepidation, but there was also, it sounds weird, but it's like, we don't have children. So our records are our babies and our dogs and our dogs, but you know, when you have a record, it's your job to take care of it.
And part of taking care of it as 1 of our babies is that we have to go on the road and share it with people. I don't want to say have to, we get to go out on the road and share it with people, but it's definitely, as you guys know, it is exhausting. It's mentally and physically challenging we're getting our nails done and talking to our nail technicians.
And they're like, Ooh, you get to go on the road, like you guys just jump on a bus and like sleep and we're like, no, we're like, that's not the kind of touring we do. We love that. Y'all think we're on a bus, you know, and I think, the people have these ideas of what it is, but you know, we're, from a background and a generation where a lot of our friends have been doing this and we've been doing it for a long time. So it really is part of your DNA at this point, you know, and she like, I'm home too much. Like we're both travelers. So even when we're not on the road, talking about finding balance, it sounds weird that we would travel for our balance, we love food, we love experience and we love being out of our comfort zone.
And that's probably because we're touring musicians,
Yeah.
That's something that feels familiar to us and that, we find joy in that. It does prep us for knowing the best restaurant in Philadelphia when we get there, you know, And I say best I don't mean expensive.
I mean, It feels healthy. And when we talk about like food is a big one for us, that's a big part of making sure that the band is not eating in a gas station, know, like we're searching out unless that's my choice,
[00:14:08] Michaela: Yes. We, We have this conversation a lot because we started dating when we were 21 years old, moved in together at like 23, right after we graduated from college. Yeah. so we had no money, but. Since the beginning of time what we've spent our money on is food good food That's what we care about and when we go on tour You know We stop at Whole Foods like we spend our money on food and we've had
[00:14:31] Aaron: because it is exhausting because touring is exhausting so we're like we want to eat good food so that we can have energy and we can like it's easier to stay positive and optimistic and like handle the Inevitable ups and downs of every day being in
[00:14:44] The Watson Twins: Well,
People get hangry.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah. For sure. But then
[00:14:47] Michaela: If you eat poor food, then it just keeps you in that really negative space. Granted, also, I love a good junk food.
[00:14:54] Aaron: I've seen you eat like two hot dogs for breakfast on multiple occasions, so let's just,
[00:14:59] Michaela: we'll preface it with that. I love that stuff. But that's why I have to compensate, yeah, with the foundation of good food.
But we have traveled with some people who, you know, are very budget conscious and they're like, I'm not shopping at Whole Foods. we like ran into somebody who was a friend of someone we took on tour and he was like, I heard you guys eat really
[00:15:15] The Watson Twins: well. And we're like, okay.
Our reputation. Yeah, exactly. I think that's a big part of it though. And we really do try to carve out time. We laugh because we're pretty sure that touring bands are keeping Starbucks in business.
Oh yeah. Huh. fruit and nut tray and, a green juice and a coffee if that's the way you want to start your day.
Or you can get an impossible egg sandwich, which is usually my go to,
[00:15:44] Aaron: We have a kid now, so it's, I guess a little bit more normal for me, but. Prior, we were in that middle part of the country where it's like really hard to get any kind of fresh fruit or vegetable. And we were at Starbucks and they had this little baby food pack. And I looked at it and it was like apples and pears and kale.
And that was it. And I was like cool. I'm doing it. So there I was.
[00:16:03] The Watson Twins: I have thought that before. I have been in that line going like, How do I get greens today? I wonder if I could eat that.
[00:16:10] Aaron: Yeah. If you can like just push your ego aside a little bit, it's just a smoothie, like in a really handy squeeze pack, you know? Yeah.
[00:16:17] The Watson Twins: we need to
road hack. We need to, and we also, there's a business idea in here somewhere where it's these fruit packs for adults. We
Yeah.
smoothies in a pack.
[00:16:25] Aaron: Yeah, exactly. Cause you can pack them all together. They don't have to be cold.
[00:16:29] Michaela: I feel like we should also mention for just cause we should help spread the word. Our friends have this incredible website called tour food. Yeah. Tor
[00:16:37] Aaron: food dot us. And these are two friends that toured for a long time.
One is Adam Schatz who plays in Japanese breakfast and a whole bunch of other things. And the other one is Charlie Ferguson who's in hooray for the riffraff for a long time. But I toured with them for years when we lived in New York same thing. They always like, the best restaurant, which might be like the greasy, cheesesteak joint, but they kept a running list and all of us friends like had Google spreadsheet that was like passed around of all these lists.
Well, they turned it into a website and you can like search by city. You can search the route that you're on. You can select will this be open after my show? So they will only show you restaurants that are open late.
[00:17:09] The Watson Twins: is amazing.
[00:17:10] Aaron: Yeah, it's a lifesaver.
[00:17:12] The Watson Twins: y'all. Yeah.
[00:17:15] Michaela: So one of the things I often think about musician lifestyle is you have all these different phases, the creation phase where you're writing and nurturing yourself and excavating yourself and then the recording phase and all varying levels of Solitary versus communal versus very communal with touring and you guys right now are in That tour phase.
How do you care for yourselves? When you are on the road and also being the bosses which we touched on a little bit But like you not only have to care for each other and check each other on the road You now are like running everything and caring for three other people. What are some of the things you guys What do you guys have to do?
Do you just okay, we get through this and then we take care of ourselves and we get home? Or do you have, any things you've learned over the
[00:18:03] The Watson Twins: Yeah, I think, for us, food thing is really important and just being in check with what you're putting in your body. You know, we like to stock the van with healthy snack mixes and we just had a new bass player join us on the last tour and he was like, there's a rolled up blanket and a pillow and snacks in here.
My mom embroidered blankets with the album cover on the front for every record, for each record. And this record, she made pillows too, that say holler on them that are of the album. So cute. But then the guys opened the band, they're like, What? But I think, you know, creating a, nice, comfortable environment, for us we work during the day.
I'm sure as you guys do, like when we're on the road, we're checking things off the list of things we have to do or getting back to PR or the label needs this or brainstorming what's next or who we're going to reach out to. Or, we call it the mobile office. And we work while we're driving and then of course we also then have great conversations and listen to music and podcasts.
But I think, probably the key components for us are really that balance of eating well. I think one of the things that we invest in as we try to get decent hotel rooms and we try to get people space. So we're not. Old school style, four people in a hotel room, that kind of stuff. And that's been something that we've spent more money on just to have people have their own space.
Because I think, especially just being an older touring musician, everybody does have home lives, whether that's kids at home or a partner. and so to have that space to. Speak with their loved one and stay connected to home. I think that keeps people grounded And then really, you know a lot of pre production when we're out there and a lot of pre production before just making sure We always give ourselves extra time on the drive in case we have issues we don't do we don't do late night drives Yeah, stress can like turn your nervous system into a wasteland Yeah that also we just know illness creeps in and all of those things and so I think for us we're just trying to create Our best case scenario, and there's two of us a lot of people roll, oh, we don't have hotel rooms tonight.
We'll just hotel tonight. Something. Oh, I'm like scouring the Travelocity, the Trip Advisor, all of the things to find the reviews, the cheapest, best thing that we can afford. We have a budget and, we try to really, work within those numbers to make it work the run.
But also if I have to drive, 20 minutes outside of the city to get a better room that is going to be quiet and I'm not gonna be worried about where the van's parked. it's worth it. Yeah. And so that pre production element, I think for us and also for the band, because, if you are the leader in the boss person and you're making decisions for people, I think them knowing that you have their best interest in mind and that you're really trying to create a peaceful environment just there's so many variables that are out of our control.
And so it is complete surrender when you're out there. And I think, realizing the things you can control and that you can invest a little bit of time and potentially a little bit more money in certain things that are within your power. because, the other things are completely out of your control.
So you show up, the sound guy's not there or he isn't participating,
Yeah.
Or whatever happens, you know, again, thought there was a writer, there's not. Whatever those kind of hiccups are that you're like, you want to be prepared for those and try to be at your best, that's a big one for us is just really being organized and the pre production element of things and trying to make it peaceful of an experience for the people we're with.
[00:21:33] Michaela: Yeah, that's such a huge change that happened for me. Early on, I feel like I'd be like, Okay, tour's booked, you find a place to stay day of, and you book a hotel frantically from the, your phone after the gig, and you're like, Shit, where are we sleeping tonight? Or, you know, I want an extra hour of sleep tomorrow, so I'm going to push it time wise and then you're so stressed because you hit traffic and learning those things of booking hotels ahead of time planning everything ahead of time knowing that like, the stress if you hit traffic is going to make you more exhausted than that extra hour of sleep in bed at the hotel like, that kind of stuff just made touring so much nicer.
[00:22:10] The Watson Twins: Also just having all the tools that we have now, we talk about the mobile office. we can be in the van on a hotspot, sending stuff, doing work. Whereas before, we were on phones and stuff like that and still working on phones as well.
But there's just another element to it to where we're not getting there and then trying to set up the merge, trying to load in gear, trying to do all the things and again, creating that level of stress. we get there, the computers close and we really try in the lead up to the show to just be center focused, and to understand that it's only, 45 minutes to an hour and a half that we get to share our music with the people who are there.
And so how do we mentally prepare for that? And we'll catch each other because. We have a side hustle for our side hustle we own event spaces here in Nashville and, we try not to talk our work talk before we go on and we try to talk about, things we're grateful for or happy experiences and really try to set.
That tone for like how we're getting on stage and that, sort of feeds into that stress conversation it is your, mantra, your meditation, whatever you're doing before you get on stage it's really important to ground you and to keep you in that moment so that you're not thinking about, Oh, when I get on stage, I'll have to.
Find us a hotel. You're not singing the song being like, where are we sleeping tonight? In the
[00:23:35] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:23:36] The Watson Twins: back of your mind, you're like, Oh, I got to find three hotel rooms. I hope they're under 150.
Yeah. That barely exists
[00:23:45] Michaela: anymore. It's insane. Even like terrible Super 8's are like 100 now.
[00:23:49] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:23:50] The Watson Twins: Yeah, I think for us, the mind is very powerful, and it can turn a show that, there's not very many people there, but the venue is beyond excited that you're there because they're all fans. And they rolled out the red carpet and your writers there and the dressing rooms nice and you can decompress and you're, you're in a cool part of the city where your band can wonder off and just walk, and I think that's the other thing is we really try to give ourselves when we get into town time to get out, stretch, walk, breathe outside of our, tube that we're traveling through time and space,
[00:24:24] Aaron: put your feet on the ground and just be a human for a little bit. It
[00:24:27] The Watson Twins: yeah, it
[00:24:27] Aaron: difference, even if it's just 15 minutes of walking around the block and getting away from five people you've been in van with for a little bit and just be like, Oh, I am an autonomous human being.
This is great. I can make my own decisions.
[00:24:38] Michaela: we had a great bass player one time who told us, I just assume when you're on tour that I'm probably annoying someone in the van just by being here. I'm probably
[00:24:48] Aaron: turning the pages in my book too fast for somebody, so. I'm probably
[00:24:51] Michaela: swallowing too loudly, so
[00:24:54] The Watson Twins: like, We had right when the iPhones came out, our key player at the time got a new iPhone. And you know, when you get an Apple device, when you hit the keys, it has the kick sound. So he had a flip phone and then he was also, we were early thirties or whatever.
And he was like, already like Almost 50. he was an older old school cat, technology was also a little bit harder for him. So our drummer, who was just like the kindest soul, this went on for hours that first day as he was texting his wife and friends, and finally our drummer just like whips around.
He's like, you know, you can turn that sound off, right? Let me do it for you. You know, It's like that is the I'm drinking too loudly. Yeah. It happens. It happens.
[00:25:40] Aaron: And I also want to note Uh, I get to tread both sides of the line being married to Michaela and touring with her and, being her right hand man, on the road, but also having toured with other people in a lot of different situations and the more organized the front people are.
The better it is for the band to even if there isn't something like a master tour or like a tour book or whatever it is, just, having the front people know what's happening ahead of time and be organized. It makes you feel less trapped. Otherwise, you're just like, I don't know what's going on.
minute to minute. Who knows, what time we're getting in the van tomorrow morning, you know, somebody that like, I like to have my alone like to hang and do all that on the road, but I also like to have my alone time. So if I know lobby call is this time.
[00:26:22] Michaela: Did you just correct that to make sure they know you're nice and social for me? No, I didn't. No. You were like, wait, I do like to hang out guys. Don't
[00:26:28] The Watson Twins: worry. Yeah. We'll invite you to hang. Yes, you know, that's our thing too. We always Everyone's invited. Everyone's invited to hang after the show, but it's not an obligation, so.
[00:26:38] Aaron: yeah, I mean cuz like we've toured with people that they get in the van It's immediately like headphones on don't get out and like immediately start loading in you're like dude loadings not for like an hour Where are you bringing up? You know those people that are just don't even notice that there's other people around But no, I just saying it's I like to physical exercise on there.
I like to go for like a run and just because there's so much of the day that's sitting around so if I know what time lobby call is, it's like I can plan tomorrow morning or I can plan like, oh, cool load in is this time and I actually have like time to go like find a cool place to eat.
That's further from the venue between soundtrack and the show just knowing all that just freeze everything up a little bit and just makes it so
[00:27:12] The Watson Twins: Our joke is that we do master tour and I usually am the one responsible for loading everything in there and then it never fails that we spend the first three days of tour where trying to like on on Master tour ,
[00:27:24] Aaron: Yeah. Yep.
[00:27:25] The Watson Twins: it's like the tour management joke, which is everyone's always asking the tour manager what time's the lobby call or what time this call, or what time, what are time is up tonight, or they. look on your phone, . Yeah.
[00:27:37] Aaron: I've heard tour managers joke about making t-shirt that says it's in master tour and just wearing that every day, .
[00:27:42] Michaela: Yeah. I wanted to shift gears a little bit and I wanted, To talk about your side hustles, because one of the things that we like to talk about on this is rather than even calling them side hustles, but just diversification as artists, because there's this kind of stigma or this idea, if you have to do anything else besides your music, that somehow you're not a full professional musician.
And I think the reality is actually, you need to take care of yourself financially and the music business. It's getting harder and harder and harder to make a living, so it's not some reflection on your artistic capabilities. It's being a really smart business person to care about your financial wellness and know that maybe it's not all going to come from this one pot.
And also if you can create some financial well being elsewhere, it might even free up a lot of money. artistic, creative energy, when it's not attached to that. I wanted, because you guys are businesswomen, and you also do everything together, which we want to talk about that as well. But so you own event spaces.
How did that come, and when did that come in to your careers? Because you guys started putting out records and then did those projects.
[00:28:54] The Watson Twins: we were living in LA and we both had jobs there but they were flexible. So we were able to leave and go on the road and then come back and have a job, which was really amazing. And we were able to do that many years. Was it amazing though? It was amazing. It allowed us to tour.
We didn't have to quit every time commercial production getting people coffee. So
Yeah.
the best, she was working commercial production and I was working at an art gallery. I had a little bit better job.
Okay.
It was my client who would let me leave for three weeks and then come back and have a job and sell high end art, which was great.
But I think, we had started talking about, at that time had recently gotten married, my husband and I had toured for many years, he was in a band, and so we weren't seeing a lot of each other, and then we kind of one day looked at each other, and we're like, we like each other, maybe we should try to figure out something else that we're not both just touring all the time and trying to scramble for money and that kind of stuff.
And so we started, That would have probably been in like two thousand... 2009 or 2010, we started talking about, okay, if we were to open a business what would it look like? And we're originally from Louisville, Kentucky. This part of the country is familiar to us and our older sister had been living in Gallatin and so family trips, like, we would always come to Nashville.
And so we started, getting to experience the city a little bit more and back then, I say it was like so long ago, but it wasn't that long ago that it was just a very quiet,
Mm Sleepy kind of, city that felt familiar to us. the more we started talking about trying to find a career path that would work for our music career, I think that's why it took us four years because it was like, okay, we don't want to have a brick and mortar that you have to go in every day, like a retail shop.
We don't want to in food service and we don't want to, have an office job. And so we spent a lot of time. Kicking around ideas that could help supplement our income and give us some stability while also still allowing us to do music because we didn't want to give that up, and I think that's a choice that a lot of people have to make, they can't figure out a way to do both. And so eventually they end up not maybe completely giving it up, but realizing Hey, it's not sustainable to be on the road. And be able to do those things. So I'm grateful that we found it something that we felt like we could set up that would lend itself to our music career.
And that was actually. The catalyst was Lee was engaged in getting married and her husband is from England and so they were like, let's get married in Nashville. It's centrally located in the country. It'll be easier for people to get to. And they also just love Nashville. And as a Brit just fell in love with, you know, the South.
and so they were looking at event spaces here and that was like 2011. And 2011. Yeah. And. We were going to see all these places and it was antebellum homes with doilies and Plantations and things and he was just I don't know if I can do This is very strange and doesn't feel familiar at all.
And we were just looking for something I didn't do it in the right accent though. I don't try to do his accent because he does a southern accent. He tries to do the southern accent and I'm like baby, no. But you know We were looking and the thing that resonated honestly was regardless of the space was that for us to get married on a Saturday was two years.
We had to wait. Because there's no availability. And so it's just strictly a supply and demand. And I always, now that we've, been in business for 10 years and we have three spaces, which it started with one, I always tell people who are starting businesses, I'm like, find your audience, and how many of them are there and, try to find your hole in the market.
And so we concepted our first space We wanted something downtown, Music City Center wasn't open yet. And so something that was, close to there and also that had, you know, proximity to Broadway and other tourist attractions. Because 85. People out of our hundred person guest count were coming from other places.
They didn't live in Nashville, you know, and so I came back to LA and I was talking with Chandra and one of my other close friends and just telling them about what was out there. our mom jokingly said while she was looking like, why don't you just buy a piece of property and put a tent on it and then you own something in Nashville and then you can eventually build a home on it or whatever, but it'll be an investment versus just renting a space and we are creative.
So we went, let's buy a condemned building and fix it up start a business that we've never run before. That'll be cool on it.
laughs Mm
And so I think we were, you know, I tell people, I'm like, we were creatives. And also when you're a musician, you do every kind of job, office job. I mean, We joke about it.
I worked for a PI at some point in LA. I
Wow. Whoa.
catering, waiting table. Yeah. So it's I worked in floral, high end art. I had done a bazillion different things. And really when we started looking at our skillset, we were like, we've, hosted parties. We both worked in production, which is basically throwing an event.
I've done sales. We've been in food service been in floral. So it was like all of a sudden, it was like well, we've done everything around this. We just haven't done this. so we just set our minds to it. And one of our best friends who was also from the South wanted to move closer to home and she was like, I want to be involved.
I'd love to do it. So we had a lot of support as far as just guidance from a lot of people that have been in the industry and that were willing to meet with us. A point in time where, Nashville hadn't exploded yet. And so we came and we decided we wanted a meeting with the mayor's office.
We did. And we went dude. Can we have a meeting with the mayor's office? And they said, what day you want to come in next week? Is that work for you guys? I mean, it was like, we were just going around meeting everybody in Nashville, talking about this concept that we had, that we wanted something that felt modern, but also felt historic and rooted in the South.
architecture nerds. yeah, we were, and so when we found, actually found it in a real estate search when I was working at the art gallery, and saw this boarded up building and it had a sign on it that said, make an offer. And I saw the picture of it and I sent it to our realtor and just said, Hey, cause we were going, we were coming here to look at some properties and send it to the realtor and said, Hey we want to come see this property.
And she was like, I don't think so. It's not in a good part of town. It's not in a good part of town, which is hilarious. Because it's downtown. It's where Husk is and, Third Linsley. But none of that was there. Only Third Linsley was there. And we're like, yeah, we want to see this property. And we I mean, it was boarded up.
We had flashlights when we went in. It had fire inside. It was gutted. It was in really bad shape. And the three of us got on the plane to go home and we started having the conversation about this building and I was like, okay, how would you guys feel if somebody else bought this building or tore it down or tore it down?
Do you know, and a lot of people are like, the property is only worth the property and the bricks. That's it. The houses were nothing. And we all just agreed. We're like, we would be heartbroken if somebody else. It's either tore it down or bought it. And so it was like, okay, that's the beginning of the journey.
Yeah. Architecturally it was exciting to us. And also, we wanted to have some more stability and we wanted to be able to have something that we felt passionate about. And I think, when you're looking for, as you mentioned, that balance, I think it's. That was one of the things like in thinking about doing this podcast that came up when Chandra and I were talking about it.
That balance of having that other thing, whether it's parenting or whether it's partnering or whether it's running a small business or whether it's painting or photography or whatever it is, having that other thing creates balance and it also gives you more gratitude for the music it scratches a different itch.
And it's, again, we get to do this, we don't have to do it. And for a long time, touring was, we have to do it because it's the only way we make money. And we were on the hamster wheel. I can imagine where, of course our business went through a crazy time during COVID as well, because we were shut down and we couldn't do weddings, but we had, a staff of seven people where we could apply for PPP and, all of the things that small business did to get through it.
We were able to use the knowledge that we had in running the business and that tenacity that we will get through this, you know, we learned on the road and to now have them both shake each other's hand and be like, Hey, we're in this together.
It gives us gratitude on both sides. You know, with the creative life, it's really hard. There's no equation, right? So A plus B doesn't always equal C. Make a record, get a record deal. It's going to go great.
[00:37:09] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:37:10] The Watson Twins: Not what happens, so it's like sometimes A to B equals F, you know, or whatever.
And you're just like well, I didn't see that coming. So I think having a business where you're like, okay, if we do the marketing, right. And if we present a good product and if we have a great system and procedures and. We're creating all these systems, as we grow our business it gives me a lot of satisfaction because I'm like A plus B does actual equal C.
Which in the creative life, it doesn't. So it's nice to have our other side of our life be something that feels a little bit more reliable in that way. And a little bit more predictable, having forecasts and seeing things, trends, you're like, okay, we're, this is our busy season and this is what it looks like.
And that feels very good to have as a balance to the music stuff,
[00:37:54] Michaela: you guys probably have even more of a unique perspective of seeing firsthand how the equation doesn't always add up. Because in addition to your solo stuff, you've also toured and been part of big records and
that kind of intimate knowledge of seeing when things go really well when maybe you weren't expecting it and then maybe don't go well when you were really expecting it to. can you talk a little bit about that because I feel like that can be a hard lesson for a lot of us and I would imagine might be helpful when you also see it up close happening for other people.
[00:38:25] The Watson Twins: we were talking about this as well, a lot of our experiences as backup singers. We've learned a lot through watching other artists. So it's given us what to do and what not to do, how to lead a band, like hold your stage presence in a place that is giving to the audience, but also creating, mystique around who you are and, or just.
Strictly being an entertainer. Yeah, there's some people we've seen all of it really well And there's some people who struggle at it, even though they might be big artists They may not be the best entertainers, and really trying to find our place in that I think being backup singers that has given us a lot of just experience in, singing for 75, 000 people at Coachella with the shins and then, turning around and playing for 150 people at our show the next week in the basement here, you get that juxtaposition, but I think for us, we feel really grateful that we get those calls and that we get to do that because the pressure's off of us in those situations. Yes, we have to deliver and yes, we have to practice and learn the material and do all the things. And have the outfits. Mm hmm.
which, you know, it's just part of our thing, we get to be 20 feet from stardom.
We get to be part of the fabric. We don't have to be the focal point and there's a pressure that comes off of that when, it isn't our gig we're on tour with foster the people and we're literally just getting in the bus. And going to the next location. We're not, We're not worried about any of the logistics.
We're just getting off. We're getting tired. That's like our vacation time. We're warming up and we're going out and just having a blast singing, and that's if anybody needs any backup singers. Um, That for us again, creates balance, it's our time to sing together, which is something we'd love to do, but it takes the pressure off of us in a different way that we don't have to be the band leader.
But I do think You know, with this record and what we hope people will take away from this record is that we feel like we've earned our time to be at the front of the stage and to be the lead singers of the Watson twins and to hold that presence, has just taken us some time to get there, but we really feel like with this record.
That it's our time, and I like that you brought up the diversification of all of this. And I think that is truly the key to not only being successful, just on a personal level of feeling like, okay, I'm doing it for me. I'm doing these things because I enjoy them. I'm doing these things because it fills my cup, doing things that didn't fill the cup, and when you do that, guess what? The results are not there. that is actually an plus B does equal C kind of situation. It's like if you're continually investing in things that you don't care about or that you're. Not invested in or don't make you happy you're going to perpetuate that cycle So it's like that's something that through our experiences of doing some things that we're like, Maybe we shouldn't have done that wow, that really sucked let's not do that again I think that's something that we've learned through our experiences too Which have allowed us to feel like when we agree on something and we're like, yes, we're doing that It's magic and it really does just happen.
I mean, that's the beauty of it. It's oh, wow, like we didn't even really have to push that hard and this whole thing just opened up and that's kind of our experience. the trust your gut mentality, which sometimes what you think is your gut is actually your ego talking. So it's like really important to find the differentiation between those two and If it's not unanimous, it doesn't happen.
That's where we're at in our career. And we talk about stuff a lot too, you know, where it's like, we might be on the fence about something. I'm like, Oh, should we do this? Should we not? Let's talk about it. And usually we both come to the same conclusion. And that's just because again, we're listening to that, real deep inner voice.
That's like, yeah, were going to pass on that. Even though it on paper, this looks incredible. Like this, it makes zero sense. And I think that goes back to the other question of just like working together, and having businesses together and being collaborators since birth, to say like, how do you guys do it?
I think we have a really, strong relationship based on just like our upbringing. Of course, we have an older sister, but she's 10 years older and it was just the 2 of us. And our father passed away when we were two, and so my mom was a single mom, and so we had to rely on each other for a lot, and we were never competitive, we were always supportive of each other, we didn't compete for guys, or popularity, or friends, it was just, strictly a supportive relationship, we joke about our mom taught us how to Break a cookie exactly in half because your sister's going to get to pick which piece she wants first, you know, that's just kind of how we were raised and I think we've figured out being a twin is super special and like we got this gift and so why wouldn't we take advantage of it, and that's part of, it's annoying to our husbands and business partner, but People are always like, what's it like to be a twin?
I'm like, I don't know what it's like not to be a twin. don't know that it's something I can really differentiate between being a solo person and being a twin, yeah, we were same DNA, same egg, don't think about it too much. Cause it gets really weird, really fast.
Okay. Our friends, science is weird. Okay. Our friends, laugh, but are a lot of differences about us as well. And we definitely are each other's cheerleaders in those weaknesses that we know that the other person has, you know, it's like, I was going to talk to you after this interview.
Thank you. Well, I
some work to do, but you know, you're capable, you're capable. All that damage is
Yeah.
really paying off. She's like, hold on, Well, I think culturally we like,
[00:44:15] Michaela: put so much emphasis on individuality and independence. so I feel like the concept of like, wait, there's somebody else in the world that's exactly like you or perceived to be exactly like you, like that must be. hard and weird. I've always thought it seems really beautiful. I've just been someone who's lived my whole life being like, where's my like soulmate, which I've realized I've really focused it on like a girl, like a best friend, because I've had Aaron since I was. 21 years old. And I'm like, where's my soulmate sister in life? And I'm like, oh, you don't count.
[00:44:50] Aaron: There are also things you bring up to me as if I'm your soul sister. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm trying hard, but this is just going right over my head.
[00:44:57] Michaela: He's many times been like, I'm not your girlfriend.
[00:44:59] The Watson Twins: what we talked about a lot just in the making of this record and just in our career in general is like our community has over and over again supported us, from the L. A. Days of. Silver Lake and being in that up and coming music scene and working at Friend Studios and, rehearsing in Silver Sun Pickups, rehearsal space and then, next door was like Folk Implosion.
we had this community that was happening around us, that supported us and championed us and I think that when you have that You start to realize there is the greater than one. Yeah, you know, you're always stronger in community that's just the truth whether you're making music in a silo or whether you're trying to Run your band in a silo or whether you're, an autonomous, entity, whatever that is.
I truly believe that you can't do it on your own. We need fans. We need, bands. We need collaborators and if you create that community with people you trust, it's I think it's easier for us to collaborate We wrote an essay for Relics Magazine and it was together, together,
Um, But it was literally, I wrote it and then I passed it off to her. She finished it? Yeah. And then she passed it back to me. I some work on it, and then she did some work on it, and then we turned it in. So it's a definitely collaborative essay, but it started, it's called, I think, the Art of.
Collaboration. The art of collaboration. I wanted to call it, the spirit of collaboration, that's right. I wanted to call it since conception because really when you think about it, she thought it was too weird, but, but you know, when you think about it, it's a weird concept. I I don't even think about my parents having sex, okay. But when you think about it, it's a weird concept to be like, even in a womb, we had to navigate each other, which is like a weird thought, these two beings from the moment they are created. Are in this environment together and they have to work together and move around each other and Hey, move over or share food.
I mean, When you really think about it, it's been our whole life literally our whole life that we've been doing that and collaborating with each other And working towards a goal, to be born to stay alive whatever it is So we're people maybe don't understand it for us.
I don't have that Need to be independent in a way. I mean like my husband would say I'm very independent. That's just because I'm a driven person that is just like, I'm doing it, you know? but really that independence I'm only able to do that based on my community, which is my family, the support of my friends.
That's really what allows you to give you the courage and also the strength to take on new experiences,
you
know? And so for us, um, yeah, our lifeblood comes from,
[00:47:37] Aaron: Yeah, that's so beautiful. I can imagine that there are times that you guys step on each other's toes, or there is rub, and it's not just pure, beautiful, glorious collaboration.
[00:47:47] The Watson Twins: The guys in the band go mommy and mommy, the mommies are fighting again.
[00:47:53] Aaron: How do you guys work through that?
[00:47:54] The Watson Twins: It doesn't last very long. It's like being in a marriage. usually if one of us is rubbing the other one, we know why. So it's like, okay, I heard you, enough, you know, timeout. And I think we've gotten It's normally something dumb too.
Like it's about directions or where we should stop to eat. we don't have like. decision making conversations that are arguments just because we know that gets nowhere. And we're usually fighting about something super dumb. sometimes if it is business stuff, it's more because we both are really trying to figure out what the best thing is.
And because we now having multiple spaces, we have employees now. a lot of times we're. We're not just making the decision for us or the band or whatever. It's like, we're making decisions for a group of people that we feel responsible for and that we want to help. and we want to make sure we're taking care of them.
And so those heated discussions are more on the business side of things where it's these are just big decisions and so that it can get heated, not necessarily at each other. But at the stress of gosh, I hope we make the right decision or I'm feeling the tension. And I think the older we've gotten to, it's like being very transparent, she called me the other day and I was, a dumb story.
I was trying to buy plants, the farmer's market was a mess. And I just, was like, I'm losing my mind right now. I'm at, we're under a lot of stress because we're opening our new space and we have show this week and you know, all the things, And I was just like, started to tear up, was like, okay, well this, this, and this.
And I was like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was like, I'm really, really overwhelmed right now. And just saying that allowed me to be vulnerable and allowed me to communicate. And then she was like, I got you. What do you need for me? And understanding those communication patterns. And I think that's. Also checking in with the people when you're on the road with people, or, when you're collaborating with people, it's sometimes that end goal or that, destination that you're going to figuratively or literally, they got a lot going on that has nothing to do with that destination.
And we're just humans trying to navigate all this our personal lives, our finances, all those things. And I think, those check ins. With people and just being real with people is what everyone just wants to be seen and heard, you know, that's one thing I would say really just finding value in your people, and understanding that as front people, like it's our project, it's our name on the bill and our players are coming out to support us and understanding That they're an enormous piece of the equation, and delivering our music to people the way we want it to sound and the work and time that they put in it is really important.
And, you know, we always do like at the end of a tour, we try to find a really great restaurant. The last night of tour. We go eat as a, family style together, 5:00 PM before we go to check or four 30, whatever we have to do to get it in before check. But we will do that at the end of every tour.
to show our gratitude for the time and effort that everybody puts in. the guys always say like, you guys work harder than everybody. And I'm like, yeah, it's our baby. And there's two of us.
[00:50:47] Michaela: Yeah. Well, But I think that again, communicating if you're lucky in life, you get a sibling or a spouse, a partner that you feel safe enough to bicker with and to argue with and then hopefully also spend time learning how to. better communicate to each other and I think about that all the time, about how much it's not really normalized to also translate that to friendships and then working relationships that we need that same type of, help or therapy or whatever for how we can communicate with our friends, our coworkers, our employees, whatever, so that we are direct and honest without harming each other.
And also sharing the truth rather than, communicating. So I would imagine also working with you guys. for those in your band. they get to witness that and then therefore hopefully By proxy, inhale it a little bit.
Well, I
[00:51:44] Aaron: think it's all the vibe that you set, your band leaders, but you're also leaders of the environment in the van, the, I guess in, in corporate life, it'd be like the culture, right? Like the corporate culture, whatever it would be you set the tone for that.
like we've said this whole conversation, this job is not normal, if you think of touring as like a business trip, it's really strange, you know, most people in corporate America, like they fly on their own, you're pretty autonomous together, it's basically like a being on tour, whether you're in a bus or you're in a van or whatever it is you're in a moving dorm room essentially. it takes that extra effort to like, be comfortable and to be vulnerable and And the more enjoyable tours I've been on, and bands that I've been in that are longer running we definitely had our differences.
We definitely had grievances, but you could talk about it openly and it was cool, and quickly when it's open, it gets to a point that people are like, Ah, that's happening. this is them being them and that's cool. I love this person for who they are and they're just having a rough day and it is what it is.
[00:52:40] The Watson Twins: Yeah. the question I like is when you're Out on the road and somebody says, Oh, is this business or pleasure? And you're like,
Oh,
I don't know. What is it
[00:52:49] Aaron: yeah.
[00:52:51] The Watson Twins: traveling for business or pleasure? It's this is a good question. let me let you know how today goes. Okay.
[00:52:56] Michaela: Yeah, whenever I book flights on Southwest, it always says, is this like a business trip or personal? And I'm like, everything's business, but everything's personal.
[00:53:06] Aaron: My favorite is that, somebody described being a touring musician as every day is a Monday and a Saturday at the same time.
[00:53:12] The Watson Twins: like it.
[00:53:13] Aaron: Oh, can you hear me?
All right.
Oh no, we froze. Oh no!
[00:53:18] Michaela: Can you hear us?
[00:53:18] The Watson Twins: for having us, guys! We don't know if you can hear us, but that was a great conversation, and we think we're done, but we're just grateful for you guys having us.
[00:53:28] Aaron: Hey, can you
[00:53:29] aaron___michaela-wqfqus9hz__raw-synced-video-cfr_34-the-watson-twins-outro_2023-sep-05-0521pm_the_other 22 hours : Well,
[00:53:30] Aaron: there you have it for all of you guys that have spent time on Zoom in the last three years during the pandemic, you can understand how the internet works sometimes. And it just was not in our cards today and we couldn't get the conversation restarted. So we just want to say a big thank you to the Watson twins for carving out time in their day to be here with us and sharing such nuggets of wisdom in this show.
Yeah. And
[00:53:51] Michaela: we'll see you next week.
[00:53:53] Aaron: Here's the outro music.